Why is there so little information on this game?

[Sephrinxx]

For instance, trying to figure out how Cure Potency and Healing Spell potency interact with eachother has been a nightmare. All I've been able to find is a ridiculous forumla with the variables being unknown.

This game has been out for what, 8 years now? There is a staggeringly small amount of information available. The wiki and other forms if usual information are ghostly bare.

Does anyone know how how the healing/damage coefficients work in this game?

Example: I had 95 Healing Potency and used Second Wind which is 500 Cure Potency, and it healed me for 159.

How does that work? That doesn't make any sense to me at all.

[A_moth_called_rose]

A lot of inner workings of a game that has the ability to be mathed out usually involves data mining combined with theory crafting. square has been pretty heavy handed with banning people that lift data from the game for out-of-game usage (eg. mogboard losing all but one of their accounts)

[Sephrinxx]

Why do they want that information hidden? I don't understand.

[DPZ2]

It's hidden, I suspect, so that changes to the underlying math involving that information can be made without players calling the developers names. If it's not 'official' it can be changed as needed.

That being said, there are a few sites on the Internet (and on Discord) where that underlying math is better understood due to players reporting what happens by observing what happens when X is cast or Y action is taken. It's called theorycrafting and/or optimization.

Have fun investigating!

[Rongway]

Why do you need detailed damage and healing formulas?

Equip whatever has the highest iLv for your role. Adopt a rotation that lets you use a sequence of actions that has the highest potency per time.

Most of the pieces of the formula can be ignored when deciding what to do, and with the exception of BLM's hidden 1.8x multiplier for fire spells while under the effect of Astral Fire III, you don't actually need any information beyond the potencies listed in the tooltips.

The only real gotcha is when comparing actions between two jobs that do not have equivalent damage+/healing+ traits. Even then, just multiply one job's potencies by the ratio of the two jobs' damage+/healing+ traits.

[Sephrinxx]

Why do you need detailed damage and healing formulas?

Equip whatever has the highest iLv for your role. Adopt a rotation that lets you use a sequence of actions that has the highest potency per time.

Most of the pieces of the formula can be ignored when deciding what to do, and with the exception of BLM's hidden 1.8x multiplier for fire spells while under the effect of Astral Fire III, you don't actually need any information beyond the potencies listed in the tooltips.

The only real gotcha is when comparing actions between two jobs that do not have equivalent damage+/healing+ traits. Even then, just multiply one job's potencies by the ratio of the two jobs' damage+/healing+ traits.

So I can better evaluate and understand my abilities and stats? I mean, it's a pretty simple concept. I can't imagine being accepting of this sort of thing. Maybe this game just isn't for me. I require at least an effort of transparency and information.

I mean hell, the tooltips don't even have basic information on them. Like Peloton saying how much movement speed it grants for instance.

[Gravagar]

It's hidden, I suspect, so that changes to the underlying math involving that information can be made without players calling the developers names. If it's not 'official' it can be changed as needed.

Going to second this gentleman. If you search for theorycrafting and/or optimization discords or websites, you'll find the kind of thing you're looking for. And, yeah, they basically used the ambiguity and obfuscation of their formulas to dump a big nerf on healing this past expansion, so they definitely take advantage of that...

So I can better evaluate and understand my abilities and stats? I mean, it's a pretty simple concept. I can't imagine being accepting of this sort of thing. Maybe this game just isn't for me. I require at least an effort of transparency and information.

I mean hell, the tooltips don't even have basic information on them. Like Peloton saying how much movement speed it grants for instance.

As a long-time player, I agree with you on that. It really is short-sighted to not have potencies on things like Peloton, you do NEED to know how it stacks with Sprint or the various mounted speeds. That's just common sense. Sadly, when I need info like that, I have to google or wiki it, since the in-game resources are very lacking, like you said.


Wanting to know the details isn't such a bad thing imo!

[Rongway]

Why do you need detailed damage and healing formulas?

So I can better evaluate and understand my abilities and stats? I mean, it's a pretty simple concept. I can't imagine being accepting of this sort of thing.

That is a fairly recent concept and historically not one that the vast majority of game designers have catered to. Most games have given even less information than we have here, and expect you to figure out the relative strength of various equipment on your own, because the formulas are almost never important and sometimes figuring out how much more powerful the Master Sword is is just part of the game.

The system we have here gives the potencies of attack and healing actions, which allows you to compare the actions within a single job's toolkit to eachother to make reasonable judgements about what is an optimal strategy or rotation, and that's basically all you need to know to devise such a rotation. You simply don't need to know how much stats like weapon damage or mainstat contribute to the damage formulas because it's not going to change the actions' potencies relative to each other, and so doesn't matter.

I mean hell, the tooltips don't even have basic information on them. Like Peloton saying how much movement speed it grants for instance.

All you need to know here is that it grants a speed multiplier greater than 1.0. Does it having a 1.25 or 1.5 or 3.0 multiplier affect whether or not you will use it? It's a free, oGCD action with no consequences, and it doesn't compete with any alternative actions that force you to choose between a high speed increase or a low speed increase with other benefits tacked on. Just use it.

Actions where the potency or magnitude of an effect matter have those potencies or magnitudes clearly listed in their tooltips, excepting the aforementioned BLM mechanic (yes, UI/AF should be clearer about their effects) and the exact gauge point gains for some jobs' actions (like Improvisation, which, yes, could use a more explicit tooltip, but ultimately still doesn't affect whether or not it should be used).

[Gravagar]

All you need to know here is that it grants a speed multiplier greater than 1.0. Does it having a 1.25 or 1.5 or 3.0 multiplier affect whether or not you will use it? It's a free, oGCD action with no consequences, and it doesn't compete with any alternative actions that force you to choose between a high speed increase or a low speed increase with other benefits tacked on. Just use it.

Is Peloton stronger than Sprint? There is a cost associated with using Sprint- its cooldown, meaning it could be down when you need it. Peloton is free, but other movement abilities are not.


Do you rely on other people to determine your rotation, or your BiS? Even if you say "no" to that, you still benefit from other people who do, because it means your parties kill faster, die less, and perform better. Having more people interested in deciphering the numbers to learn the true formulas benefits you, and that drive / curiosity is something that should be fostered and supported, not something to dismiss as being wasted effort. The more folks who're interested in what's going on under-the-hood, the more we all collectively benefit. Any one individual may not "need" to know, and I do think you have good point about what you need to know, but ease up a little on the guy, eh?

[Canadane]

SE has been like this even with XI.
You still get a number to work with, your stats and your potency. The understanding they want the player to have is as they go up, effectiveness will as well. Essentially this much is true.
The underlying formulas they don't want you to know. It keeps it somewhat mysterious and also will allow them the ability to change things under the hood as needed for balancing without directly changing potency values.

They've made overall battle damage calculation changes before multiple times and never once mentioned it in any patch notes. The only way you'd even know is if you knew what to look for.