New patch cycles? Fun? [community question]

[Daniolaut]

So with the release of patch 5.3 there is an obvious new trend in content being released.

The question is, does everyone enjoy this type of release style?
(If yes, why? if no, why?)


Examples:

-Ishgard Restoration
-Hrothgar/Viera
-Gunbreaker/Dancer
-New Game+
-Blue Mage
-Unreal trials
-Relic quests (quest/Bojza)


Again, the topic here is do people enjoy this type of release method?
(If yes, why? if no, why?)

This is not a discussion about my opinion on the topic.

I am asking if people enjoy seeing content being released like this.
(If yes, why? if no, why?)

It is not a discussion of whether or not if the development team can only release it this way, or a discussion about "armchair developer" or any nonsense. Lets try to have a real discussion, and give proper feedback if that is at all possible.
Personal Note:
I do not feel we should defend Square-Enix on this topic, considering Final Fantasy XI not only releases full and complete content, without limitations, but is also on a literal skeleton crew, and skeleton budget, but is not only not failing to release content on schedule, but is now in fact releasing brand new story content. I do not feel the FFXIV team is really justified when such things are happening in that MMO, which is "considered dead."

Additional personal note. Another thing people might not know about FFXI, is it now has basically everything FFXIV has, but more, and its unlimited. Glamour there, is completely unlimited, no dressor needed, no job restrictions either. They also have the Orchestrion, they also have an abundant supply of "new mounts." It also does seasonal events, as mentioned earlier, is now releasing new story content. It also has instanced unlimited housing, with new items being released for it. It has all full and complete jobs, and gear for all levels, and all jobs release at level 1, so you gain the full leveling experience with those jobs. This list goes on, but I think I've made my point.

Ishgard Restoration:
Is incomplete content. Its being released in stages. Instead of allowing the players to progress from start to finish, each stage is literally completely haulted until the next patch for the next phase.
Personal Note. Ishgard restoration is not really "new content" in the sense, that I feel they simply have changed the way you obtain Lucis/achievement tools. Instead of having to do Lucis type steps, or complete the crafting log, they simply added more recipes and instead of releasing Ishgard housing they are halting its release for some undetermined reason. (Personally hopefully for a real reason instead of Ishgard housing being exactly like the other districts, but only stalled.)

Hrothgar and Viera:
Are literally incomplete races. Not only do they not have their opposing gender counterparts, but they also lack hairstyles that are 100% availabe to all other races, including ones purchased on the mogstation. They also do not have full access to head gear.
Personal Note. Saying "their heads are different" I dont feel is a solid reason as to why they do not have access to all in game options as all other races do.Lalafells have completely unique bodies, and all gear must be edited for them specifically. Au Ra have different heads with the scales. Miqo'te have ears. They simply have chosen not to make the required adjustments.

Gunbreaker and Dancer:
Are literally incomplete jobs. They do not have access to glamour items, available to 100% of existing jobs. These jobs also were not released at level 1, so you cannot even level them, the only things compariable to other jobs, is GNB's tank achievements and rewards. Outside of level 60 and above, these jobs fall flat and hard.

New Game+
New game plus has been slowly released over time. Instead of holding new game+ and focusing on A Realm Reborn revamp first, then releasing new game+ afterwards, they completely have done this backwards.
Personal Note. To me new game plus is not released until it is ... New game + where you.. start at the... get this.. start.

Blue Mage.
Do I even need to comment here? Not only is this job literally not a full job, but it fails to be a solo job, it also fails at making "old/dead" content fun or engaging. Every fight is still a "faceroll." On top of this, as mentioned already, solo content for BLU is not faster or more efficient or even easier with BLU than it would be with any other job. The only time BLU is more efficient is for Mogtome Farming.

Unreal Fights.
Unreal fights are limited time, and... well the word limited means limited. They are also level synced.
Personal note. Level syncing unreal fights, is kinda really strange. Especially when you consider the fights are limited time. That is an extremely strange choice to me.

Relic Quests.
If we're comparing 5.0 relics to any previous relic, they keep pushing the relic further and further back into the expansion. 2.0 relics were same item level as raid relics, and released at the same time. With 3.0 they have been pushed back. With 4.0 they have been integrated into other content which has been pushing them even further back. Now with 5.0, they have become not only pushed back simlarly to 4.0 but the content and steps have been drastically reduced. At the release of 4.3 we had Anemos and then Pagos. With 5.3 we're only just now getting Bojza.
Personal note, that is a stark difference.

[Seraphor]

"Level syncing unreal fights, is kinda really strange."

"I don't know what this content is or the purpose of it but I've already decided it's wrong."

[Daniolaut]

"I don't know what this content is or the purpose of it but I've already decided it's wrong."

The question is, does everyone enjoy this type of release style?
(If yes, why? if no, why?)


Again, the topic here is do people enjoy this type of release method?
(If yes, why? if no, why?)

This is not a discussion about my opinion on the topic.

I am asking if people enjoy seeing content being released like this.
(If yes, why? if no, why?)

"reading is difficult."

I know exactly what the content is. I participated in Shiva extreme at 2.0 and cleared it when it released pre-echo.

Unreal fights are fights to allow players to re-experience older fights at the time of their release.

They limited the fights for a limited time only, and are likely, according to the patch, limiting the rewards. Most likely very similar to the mogtomes.

This is a very strange choice to limit the fight, the rewards, and then also level sync them. As *not* level syncing them would encourage players to engage in other content to "prepare" for the unreal fights.

Instead its just basically "Mogtome farming hard mode.' Which yes I find extremely strange for a choice in development.

Additional note:
Instead of them using existing content to reduce development time on this content and utilize the already existing "minimum item level" sync function, and tacking on Faux Hallows, they are choosing to rebalance the fights, taking away from other development content, to rehash old content, because they spent time making job adjustments, utilizing development resources even further, instead of making features and content sound and solid. Now they have to take 2 and 3 times the steps to accomplish something that should be designed in such a way that existing features should be utilized when nearly the exact same outcome is the result. But again, that would be logical and sound, and who wants that? Why use level sync, and make solid sound jobs, when you can spend development time rebalancing old content to rehash it, and then spend development time rebalancing jobs, so that old content becomes imbalanced so when you rehash it, you cant use level or item level sync to ... rehash it!

Why? Because it is just rather shallow and "fluff" content. Nothing really engaging, especially if you're already experienced with the fight and cleared it at release previously.

But sure, why have a discussion and use logic? That would be helpful to the development team, and we dont want to help them, we really dont want that.

[StriderShinryu]

While there are some bits and pieces that I think could/should be addressed, like the lack of options for Hrothgar and Viera as well as a lack of glam options for GB and DNC, I largely don't mind the release schedule as it stands. I think it's also worth mentioning that, due to the extreme delay of this patch release, it makes the warts all the more obvious. If we were on a regular schedule some of the issues, like the delay of the Relic gear or the halt in Ishgard progress, would probably seem less problematic.

The only issue I really have with the current release slate is the removal of an extra dungeon. I still don't really see exactly what comparable piece of content we're receiving that required the removal of a dungeon full stop. I could maybe see a reduction in dungeon releases but it doesn't feel like we've received enough recompense to justify apparently losing them permanently. I know some (or a lot) of people see dungeons as waste of time face roll trash, and I have my issues with them as well, but it's still an element of the game I personally enjoy enough to miss them.

[Daniolaut]

While there are some bits and pieces that I think could/should be addressed, like the lack of options for Hrothgar and Viera as well as a lack of glam options for GB and DNC, I largely don't mind the release schedule as it stands. I think it's also worth mentioning that, due to the extreme delay of this patch release, it makes the warts all the more obvious. If we were on a regular schedule some of the issues, like the delay of the Relic gear or the halt in Ishgard progress, would probably seem less problematic.

The only issue I really have with the current release slate is the removal of an extra dungeon. I still don't really see exactly what comparable piece of content we're receiving that required the removal of a dungeon full stop. I could maybe see a reduction in dungeon releases but it doesn't feel like we've received enough recompense to justify apparently losing them permanently. I know some (or a lot) of people see dungeons as waste of time face roll trash, and I have my issues with them as well, but it's still an element of the game I personally enjoy enough to miss them.

Thank you for an actual response.

I dont care if you agree or not. but using even 1/5th of your brain to respond to give feedback on FFXIV for the development team to read and consider... while posting on the forums, which is a place designed for the development team to read feedback from players, and then consider it, is such a refreshing thing to see.

So again. thank you for caring about FFXIV and giving proper feedback.

I personally am quite concerned about this trend, and am completely at a loss where all the money from 20 million accounts is being utilized, especially when you consider FFXI is now releasing additional and new content, when its "supposed to be dead." Even more so when FFXIV is boating of 20 million accounts, and is completely failing to release all saints wake this year. Not a huge deal on its own, but when you look at the patch cycles, I personally am at a loss.

[ItMe]

SQEX has generally stuck to that though. This isn't a new pattern.
They release something incomplete and add to it as time goes on.
This is fairly common in the live services industry and I'm not certain I'd actually want SQEX to change this because it's actually a pretty smart business move.
Not only does it extend the life of content, but it accommodates regular updates.
I mean, can you imagine how much of a drag on time and resources things would be if they waited until NG+ (for example) was 100% ready?
If they tried to release things as "complete" they'd also have to hold onto content they're brewing long enough that not only would it back up other things in the pipeline, but while waiting for things to be DONE done the players would suffer from a lack of updates and new content.
If, before adding a new job, they had to make old weapons for all old content we'd probably only be getting one job per expac, or they'd make a handful of models and just reuse them en masse to try and meet the weapon quote before making new assets detracts too much from the expac they're trying to make.
Like, if the Ishguardian restoration was released all at once people would just shotgun through it and then it would be gone. As is, SQEX can try and build interest and hype each time they release the next chunk of that content. Things like this and the relic quests are SUPPOSED to be released in stages to give people shit to do throughout the expac to keep them subbed. And better they release it in stages than make it so grindy that it takes all of the downtime to do.

Yeah, it's too bad and quite sad that Viera and Hrothgar are so limited, but we just gotta keep telling them where we want the incomplete things to go next.

[phantomr23]

Okay, firstly, while I agree with the idea that critiquing a game you love is a valuable thing, you're coming across as incredibly pretentious and shooting your own point here. Somebody pointing out a flaw in your logic (making a sweeping statement when you technically haven't experienced it yet in its current form) is not them saying critique is not something you should do.

Anyway, a few notes:

Unreal fights are not level synced, they're ilvl synced. You have your full level 80 repertoire, which is the point here, I suspect the ilvl sync is just to ensure you can do it early on in Shadowbringers and to ensure it won't be outgeared. It fits the Extreme philosophy of a midground between faceroll normal content and Savage.

Calling DNC and GNB 'incomplete' because they released at sixty is... odd? Are you seriously suggesting that every single job outside of ARR is incomplete because you don't have to level it from one? They're a higher level so you can get them to the current content quicker, there's nothing particularly engaging or exciting about the 1-60 grind that warrants it being included - frankly I would have rather they simply launched at 70.

NG+ here is very clearly different to the traditional NG+ in that it's more re-experiencing parts of the story that you want to, since each expansion is self-contained enough to warrant that. Them adding ARR last isn't a mistake, it's more just them allowing you to access the parts that aren't being revamped as opposed to forcing you to wait for something that is ostensibly unrelated.

In general I think calling the content unfinished is a very deliberately leading misnomer. Certainly there's some things that are a little suspect - I enjoy BLU in its current state, but it's so out of sync with everything else it sticks out like a sore thumb - but things like Ishgard Restoration are done piecemeal to encourage a stronger sense of community and to keep things active over time. So yes, I'd say I like the release schedule here because it's tightly plotted, logically follows the "pick up and play" philosophy of this game compared to most MMOs and, generally, doesn't waste your time.

[MPK]

Sounds like a you problem

[wereotter]

Gunbreaker and Dancer:
Are literally incomplete jobs. They do not have access to glamour items, available to 100% of existing jobs. These jobs also were not released at level 1, so you cannot even level them, the only things compariable to other jobs, is GNB's tank achievements and rewards. Outside of level 60 and above, these jobs fall flat and hard.

This seems a pretty big stretch. They don't have access to all the primal glamors, sure. But that's the only complaint here that even holds any water. DRK, AST, MCH all started at level 30 and had nothing below that level and by the same logic can not be leveled. Even more relevant, RDM and SAM were exactly the same last expansion. They're launched at a higher level because when they released the Heavensward jobs at level 30, players didn't enjoy having to play through 20 levels in order to just play the jobs in the new expansion, so 10 levels to relevant content was much more palatable.

The jobs themselves aren't incomplete, though you could argue that you're not satisfied with the glamor options available.

[yukiiyuki]

Someone critique something about the game, call cult police! They will tell you how wrong are you and maybe you are the problem in this perfect game.
Now to the topic, new classes are fine, they even feel more complete to some old ones that got cut in half.
New races are unfinished, maybe it would be better to do your job properly instead of finding million excuses, multibillionaire company btw.
Shiva is a meme of a "content", they just changed numbers and added a recolored horse as a reward. Time walking in WoW is not even considered as a new content and people here pissing their pants about just ONE boss per 4 months.
Bozja looked like a lackluster in design terms, well, fate grinding that will be easier than Eureka, that's all, but at least something to play.
Ishgard restoration is just collectibles.
Blue mages are cool though, at least one type of the content that looks creative, would like to see more content for them.
Also, this game sucks and greatest community makes it even worse, just live with it and look how it will get even worse from now on, that's totally worth it.