Thread: 5.3 Preliminary Patch Note

Originally Posted by Xtrasweettea

SE does enough hand-holding already. How much more do you need? I am asking you as in “you” proper, because this has to nothing to do with new players and everything about Goji.

Giving you a way to react to your opponents attacks isn't hand holding, it's just the absolute most basic part of designing combat in a game. Every attack has a tell and a correct response; you just have to notice the tell and react correctly or you die. SE just forgot the part about adding a tell and went straight to you dying. They forgot step 1 in the 2 step process of constructing a competent fight.

I mean, forgetting that whole step is a mistake you RARELY see in games; I think you'd all be hard pressed to find another game with a mechanic that works like Coincounters. Still, I'm merely commending SE for deciding to address it.

Originally Posted by Goji1639

Giving you a way to react to your opponents attacks isn't hand holding, it's just the absolute most basic part of designing combat in a game. Every attack has a tell and a correct response; you just have to notice the tell and react correctly or you die. SE just forgot the part about adding a tell and went straight to you dying. They forgot step 1 in the 2 step process of constructing a competent fight.

I mean, forgetting that whole step is a mistake you RARELY see in games; I think you'd all be hard pressed to find another game with a mechanic that works like Coincounters. Still, I'm merely commending SE for deciding to address it.

Goji, you know what I meant about hand-holding. Don’t try to change the meanings of my words to keep your theoretical high-ground.

What you call a “tell” is a another visual cue. It is not the absolute cue. It is not the sole cue that tells people to react. It is one of the multiple cues that exists at the same time to provide an output to the player so the player can make a choice to do something with that output to create their own outcome. Whether that be moving or taking the hit in the case with Coincounter.

The didn’t “forget” the tell. If that were true, then they would have fixed that years ago. It was a design decision at the time.

You do not consider the fight complete because it is missing 1 out of 6 cues. Other people disagree.

I can easily find a game that has the exact same mechanic like Coincounter’s: FFXI. Every mob in that game has attacks that do not have a ground AOE marker to telegraph where that attack is going to hit. You only have three cues that something is going to happen. Sometimes mobs have an attack that can have multiple outcomes and you have no way to know what will happen. Goblin Bomb Toss is an example: can have three outcomes; a close range aoe that can deal high damage, a close range aoe that deals low damage, a self-inflicting attack that kills the goblin. FFXI still has players. That game isn’t dead.

I can name a whole franchise: Dynasty Warriors. The literal fast food of the musou genre has no indicators of where attacks will land. Lu Bu going is going to one-shot you and all you see is a change in animation and sound cue. Unless you have seen the attack before, you don’t know how the attack works. All you have is change in animation to look at from your enemy. Oh, and how musou attack works change in each installment. So what Lu Bu does in 5 isn't what he does in 6. You only have the option to run or block (in 7, 8, and 9 you have counters you can execute with one button).

Fallout 4: No AOE indicators. I guess I'll die then.