Thread: 5.3 Preliminary Patch Note

Originally Posted by Iscah

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If Coincounter was a boss in a single player game, we would probably have a frame 1 active dodge ability with iframes that allows us to avoid attacks based on the enemies animations. If we had limited mobility and no iframes, like in an MMO, however, there absolutely should be markers indicating what we need to do if the attack can't be survived.

Also, no game has an obligation to let you pass the battle the first time, but there is an obligation to make it possible to do with the information available. If you fail it should be because you made a mistake; not because a mechanic wasn't possible with the knowledge and utilities the game provided.

Originally Posted by Xtrasweettea

So, let me get this straight, DarkSouls has animations that advertise an attack that will be coming at you. These attacks also have a hitbox that is based close to as possible with the weapon or object actually doing the attack? Like a giant, armored baddie using a greatsword. I am also sure there's some sort of sound or speech that indicates when an attack is being charged as well, since humans react to sounds faster than reacting to sight.

So FFIXV doesn't do this at all? Through any of its fights? None?

There's no way to know Coincounters attack hits 360 degrees until it's too late to do anything about it, and it kills you in one hit.

In Dark Souls you have frame 1 active dodge animations with iframes, so you can avoid attacks based on what the animation looks like. Since FFXIV has limited mobility and no iframes it needs to provide markers, or NOT 1 hit kill you, to create a mechanic that can be reacted to or adjusted for. If FFXIV fails to do either of those things then the mechanic is a failure of basic design principles.

Originally Posted by Goji1639

There's no way to know Coincounters attack hits 360 degrees until it's too late to do anything about it, and it kills you in one hit.

In Dark Souls you have frame 1 active dodge animations with iframes, so you can avoid attacks based on what the animation looks like. Since FFXIV has limited mobility and no iframes it needs to provide markers, or NOT 1 hit kill you, to create a mechanic that can be reacted to or adjusted for. If FFXIV fails to do either of those things then the mechanic is a failure of basic design principles.

It’s called trial-and-error, Game King. Something older games had you do plenty of.

Coincounter actually advertises what attack it will do based on its stance, the charge bar (which DS doesn’t have), the aura he makes, battle text box telling you, and on-screen text cues. That’s FIVE cues. If you cannot see something has changed with five cues, you deserve to be hit. Now with this giant red and orange marker, which now makes it six ways the game is telling you something big is coming.

Also, the charge is long, if you pay attention, you can get out of range in plenty of time. If you don’t move enough, yes you will get hit. The hitbox size is consistent, and even if you don’t know the exact pixel of distance you need, you know that the long armed large monster with giant mace is going to swing far, better make sure I go farther then that ASAP.

If you die, then you were undergeared. I have run AV plenty of times as a DPS and healer, with at-level gear, and managed to survive being hit.

SE gives the player enough to make up the shortcommings of a game that is multiplayer and all events are happening in real time. DS can do iframes with frame 1 active dodging. FFXIV cannot do that due to telecommunication limitations. DS isn’t bound to network environments and things like jitter or packet loss.

Before you cast your “New player” card for an attempt at sympathy, don’t bother. This game is super friendly to new players and is very forgiving all the way up through the main storyline. I’ve played other MMOs that actually were deadly to new players from the start and were not as forgiving as FFIXV. This includes FFXI.

Originally Posted by Xtrasweettea

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This is mostly rambling that misses the point entirely. None of Coincounters cues indicate the attack will be a 360 degree one hit kill, so he could have 100 different colors, stances and cast bars going off before the attack and it wouldn't matter; you still wouldn't know what to do. If you don't know what to do you can't react, so you have no choice but to die.

Also, there is no "undergeared," dungeons have a minimum ilvl and if you meet it then you're appropriately geared. It's a 1 hit kill if you're not synched (overgeared).

Also, in most cases SE does make up for the limitations of MMORPG gameplay, but in Coincounters case they failed.

Originally Posted by Veis_Alveare

If someone dislikes the XIV gameplay so much and hardly participates in it anyways maybe the game isn't for them.

I like the gameplay fine for what it is. Coincounters crap is 1 mechanic on 1 boss; fortunately design failure like this aren't too common in this game.

Also, you need to get over the fact that I didn't bother with Alliance raids.