Thread: 5.3 Preliminary Patch Note

Originally Posted by EgilTheStressedMage

Can be mitigated by talking to your party and it becomes instantly avoidable.

I'm not really understanding your point. It's still a garbage mechanic; even if the community can find ways to work around it's design failures.

Originally Posted by Ilenya

There's nothing wrong with learning from deaths. It'll keep coming up, and as long as people are willing to talk, it's all good.

You're conflating the issue. Learning from deaths is fine, but a mechanic with no telegraph that instant kills you is garbage design. It doesn't mean you can't learn the mechanic; it just means that the mechanic is the result of inept gameplay development.

Originally Posted by Veis_Alveare

You'll need to get familiar with them if you want to continue the ShB story - they're required as of 6am est tomorrow.

They offer about as much indication as the councounter tbh. The boss clearly winds up a big attack that you won't live through without proper movement.

If they offer no indication of where to move then yes, terrible design.

Not to say any of this badly NEEDED addressing, but I like seeing SE remove this kind of shoddy work from some of their older content. AV may be the beginning of a trend.

Originally Posted by EgilTheStressedMage

I fail to see how it's somehow worse than the very first room of the dungeon yet it has caused the least amount of problems to just about every party I've been in. And shocker the ones who died didn't ask for how to deal with it and they got rightfully smacked.

Nothing wrong with AV being difficult. Honestly, the first room, the Malboros and the final boss have caused way more issues than Coincounter in my experience as well. Hell, they could buff literally everything else about AV and I'd have fun with it.

Don't confuse difficulty with shit design. Coincounter is changing because his mechanic is a garbage 1 hit kill with no telegraphs, not because he was some kind of impassable wall.

Originally Posted by Goji1639

The most important part of learning is the ability to adjust; take away the ability to put new knowledge into practice and new knowledge is far less likely to be retained. If we're REALLY running with the idea that Coincounter was some kind of crucial learning experience for new players, then it's a very poorly realized one.

Reality is that it's just a crap mechanic. Maybe when FATES were more popular it made a bit more sense, but as it stands right now it's just a cheesy bit of inept combat design that SE would rather not be displaying to the world. Let it disappear.

Its a very well designed boss, for starters the insta kill is only for dps and healers, the latter usually are farther from the boss so the run is hardly at risk. Tanks, which are usually more focused on mechanics and what the boss is doing are not punished hard since for them that is not that necessary and while doing that you once again don't risk the run meanwhile dps who are usually the players that tunnel vission the most and pay less attention are the ones that get more punished with a death, breaking their gameplay flow and basically telling them to pay attention to more things aside the numbers they do and their skills, and lastly for healers if they are at ranged distance the only problematic mechanics are the eye's ones which are non lethal serving as a callout to pay attention but like tank's case without risking the clear.

All the battle mechanics in that boss tell one thing "Pay attention to the boss, don't overrely on aoe marks" and all the mechanics do that without putting the party under a real risk, if the dps die they can get up with a res and practice as well as practice that principle of not relying too much on aoe marks in further trials. Coincounter is far from a boss with crap mechanics, is a good teacher that punishes you if you do bad but never hard enough to make it frustrating, the problem are the players that refuse to learn or adapt and tab into other things as soon as they die once even when the fight is not over, you have a good teacher, be a good student.