Thread: 5.3 Preliminary Patch Note

Originally Posted by Goji1639

It isn't a telegraphed attack, so how does a new player know which attack they need to use their stun on? It screws melee DPS because it's a 360 degree instant kill that does nothing to inform melee DPS that it's a 360 degree instant kill.

Pretend an attack that instant killed everyone on the left side of the stage gave absolutely no visual indication that it was going to kill everyone on the left side of the stage. No markers; no "Left side xxxx" in the name of the attack; no conceivable way to know what's coming; just bam... everyone on the left is dead. Wouldn't that be a stupid, lazily designed, cheesy mechanic that exists solely to land a cheap death on new players?

Long castbar usually indicates a bad thing is about to happen.

Originally Posted by Goji1639

Oh, so long castbar is the games telegraph for a 360 degree 1 hit kill AoE that's avoidable if you run a specific distance from the boss? My mistake then; I'll remember that the next time I see a long castbar on anything.

Attacks need telegraphs if you're required to avoid them to survive. A long cast bar doesn't tell you anything about what you need to do.

I mean a lot of attacks in this game you learn to avoid by dying to it, sure it may suck the first time to die but it's just part of the game

Originally Posted by Dogempire

I mean a lot of attacks in this game you learn to avoid by dying to it, sure it may suck the first time to die but it's just part of the game

Most attacks in this game that are direct 1-hit kills are telegraphed in some way; a mechanic that kills you outright without providing some means of reading it and reacting is garbage.

I get the feeling that people who play MMO's a lot don't get a lot of exposure to games with well designed combat.

Regardless, I like the fact that SE is recognizing and addressing some of the shoddy designs in their old content. The coincounter change is a good one.

Originally Posted by Dogempire

I mean it has a name for the attack, sure it's not telegraphed by a huge glowing orange indicator, but attacks that you can only dodge by reading its name exist in the game. (Shiva's axe/scythe kick and starboard/larboard from Omega come to mind among other things, as well as ram's/dragon's voice)

I don't believe any of those are 1 hit kills, but this is what I mean when I say I don't think people who play MMO's have a lot of exposure to games with well designed combat. Finding other examples of poorly designed combat mechanics in this MMO doesn't make them less poorly designed.

If there are other instances in this game of completely untelegraphed 1 hit kills then they I wouldn't be opposed to them being changed as well. It's just lazy crap design that honestly shouldn't even be in MMO's, regardless of how low the bar is currently set for MMO gameplay.

Originally Posted by Goji1639

Oh, so long castbar is the games telegraph for a 360 degree 1 hit kill AoE that's avoidable if you run a specific distance from the boss? My mistake then; I'll remember that the next time I see a long castbar on anything.

Attacks need telegraphs if you're required to avoid them to survive. A long cast bar doesn't tell you anything about what you need to do.

Both 10-tonze Swipe and 100-tonze Swing are telegraphed (Swipe has it lifting its club up one handed during the cast while Swing has it grasped in both hands during the cast) and both are repeats of mechanics that a player was expected to have encountered in the Coerthus Central Highlands FATE The Eyes Have It. In the FATE the Cyclops uses 3 cast attacks: 10-tonze Swipe (orange cone AoE), 10-tonze Swing (orange circle AoE) and 100-tonze Swing (no orange circle AoE indicator longer cast time by same AoE as the 10-tonze version). In the FATE you were supposed to connect the terms Swipe with Cone AoE, Swing with Circle AoE and 100-tonze with the powered up version. Later appearances of Cyclops and Minotaur enemies have maintained and expanded upon the mechanics introduced in The Eyes Have It fight.

The biggest problem with Coincounter was that The Eyes Have It stopped being done regularly after 3.1 released and so players first encounter with a Cyclops/Minotaur was with the advanced version(s) instead of the introductory version. These changes are allowing Coincounter function as the introductory Cyclops/Minotaur it has become.