Thread: 5.3 Preliminary Patch Note

Souls series is like one of the worst game series people could choose to try to highlight the idea of a telegraphed combat system or something you should avoid if you don't like the non-orange-marker attacks in FFXIV.

Yes, I do agree, and welcome, encounters in FFXIV where things don't have big ugly orange markers giving you 10 yrs to move out of danger's way.

Yes, for basically almost as long as there has been gaming, we have had stuff where you just have to read some kind of sign and respond. Often with patterns and observation. It's PUNCH OUT.

But please don't use a renowned action series with (for the most part) clean and tight animations and all kinds of super technical stuff like animation-interrupting invul on demand with a super well-tuned gauge denoting your usage anywhere near the absolute disaster that is FFXIV with its netcode, sloppy hitbox sizes, and mixed-and-matched telegraph systems (where attacks often deal damage well before or after the actual attacking part of the animation ended). Don't put them in same paragraph. Don't put them on the same page of the forum. Don't put them in the same essay. Don't even put them in the same book. Souls series deserves better than that.

Originally Posted by Skivvy

I feel like I'm missing something here. 100 Tonze Swing (the circular AoE) has a different animation than 100 Tonze Swipe (frontal cone), as well as a cast bar, and both can be avoided.

Not on reaction, they can only be avoided if you already know what each attack does before it actually happens.

A telegraph is something that would allow you to avoid the attack on reaction. Since you're not particularly mobile in a game like FFXIV, telegraphs usually involve large AoE markers and a few seconds to position yourself.

An attack that 1 hit kills you, that can't be avoided on reaction, is bad design. That's why I approve of the change to coincutter.

Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

Tank busters are most certainly 1hkos in content that matters. And no, they can't just pop mitigation whenever...

In 99.9% of content, tankbusters aren't 1-hit kills, so they teach the tank 'oh, this attack does tons of damage, maybe I should use mitigation here' and not just go 'gotcha!' and kill ya. Even in savages, the normals those world proggers have to do to unlock savage will most often highlight what the tank buster is before you enter the savage fight, so you're well aware of the vast majority of 'this attack = death' moments. (E1, E2, E3, E4, E5, E6, E7 & E8 all showcase one of the main tankbusters in their savage equivalents, and anyone worth their salt in day 1 prog will note stuff that happens in the normal modes, so they're not going in fully blind since there's plenty of overlap between how mechanics function in normal vs savage.)

Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

That depends on your definition I guess.


They aren't untelegraphed though. He has a cast bar and also raises his arm above his head and waves it around.

They all have telegraphs. Just because you don't understand them doesn't mean they don't exist.

After checking youtube, Coincounter actually doesn't hold the club over his head; he holds it up in front of him for 100 ton swing. Someone not watching his front (like many melees) will only see '100 ton swing' and nothing else and then get killed instantly with no indication as to why. It's literally a 'gotcha!' moment. Made even worse by the cast being spelled very similar to '100 ton swipe' that he does often in the fight, so unless you're scrutinizing the castbar names (Which lets be honest, most new players won't be), it's also going to come out of left field why it suddenly hit behind him and not just in front.

Also yes, he has a visual telegraph, but do you REALLY think a new player is 1) Focusing on the bosses's animations at such an early dungeon in the game when 99.9% of mechanics up to that point are telegraphed, 2) Can instantly discern 'holding club in front of him when move says this name = 360 degree huge instant one hit kill circle around him' when they've never seen it once? It's nothing more than a 'gotcha!' moment designed to prank new players. There's plenty of great mechanics/bosses in this game that teach the player 'watch the boss for telegraphs.' (Stone Vigil HM arguably the best). Current Coincounter is not one of them, and is a relic of an old, outdated age.

Across the many runs I've farmed the moogle tomes in AV, I've had no less than 12 people ask the group why they died in Coincounter or how to avoid it. The lack of information the attack gives to anyone not 1000% knowing it already is the crux of the issue, which the AOE indicator (whether full duration or 1-2s right before cast completes) will actually teach. Information is key, especially in a leveling dungeon attempting to explain a concept to a player.

Originally Posted by MariaArvana

Also yes, he has a visual telegraph, but do you REALLY think a new player is 1) Focusing on the bosses's animations at such an early dungeon in the game when 99.9% of mechanics up to that point are telegraphed, 2) Can instantly discern 'holding club in front of him when move says this name = 360 degree huge instant one hit kill circle around him' when they've never seen it once?

That's why you learn it.

I've seen AV more than anyone ever should since I've gotten it on leveling roulette constantly. No one, not one single person has complained about the move. I peeled them off the floor as a healer, and we keep moving.

And no, it wouldn't be a OHKO at full health with decent gear. But going back to your points here, the same can be applied to gear and cool down usage. So in more cases than none, people will die or get 1 auto attack from death.

Originally Posted by Amnmaat

All this yacking about Aurum Vale should be a signal to the devs that if they want to make harder dungeons they should just make Aurum Vale type dungeons where you have to strategize mob pulls, location, environment, and understand boss mechanics (you know, the main principles of PVE).

I love unique PVE assets like traps and learning how to watch your step.

Toko Rak did this with the poison spores and there's that one unseen from view you can run right into. Just a few points of damage that will be recovered over time, but there was thought put into it being there.

ARR truly had some of the most innovative design. The most challenging hallway ShB has had thus far has been probably Amaurot and the endless AOEs.

Originally Posted by Amnmaat

All this yacking about Aurum Vale should be a signal to the devs that if they want to make harder dungeons they should just make Aurum Vale type dungeons where you have to strategize mob pulls, location, environment, and understand boss mechanics (you know, the main principles of PVE).

What's more surprising than the Aurum Vale change is no new hairstyles, not even for the "normal" races. Well all I can say to people that play the "normal" races is: welcome to the club, now we're all not getting new hairstyles.

The full patch notes aren't out yet so it's still a possibility. An unlikely one, but still a possibility all the same.