Thread: 5.3 Preliminary Patch Note

Originally Posted by Theodric

There aren't really any mechanics in the game that lack a tell. Even those without orange AoE indicators have a specific tell attached to them. Usually involving the enemy in question moving or standing a certain way. To say nothing of the fact that there's usually a cast bar.

Typically people learn through trial, error and memorisation.

If there's a visual tell, or something in it's name/castbar, that informs you coincounters attack will be a 360 degree avoidable AoE from his center then I stand corrected. Otherwise it's just a cheeseball unavoidable death with no tell as to what it is.

If the point of the attack is that you HAVE to be hit by it to learn what it does and adjust accordingly, then it PROBABLY shouldn't kill you in one hit.

Originally Posted by Goji1639

If there's a visual tell, or something in it's name/castbar, that informs you coincounters attack will be a 360 degree avoidable AoE from his center then I stand corrected. Otherwise it's just a cheeseball unavoidable death with no tell as to what it is.

If the point of the attack is that you HAVE to be hit by it to learn what it does and adjust accordingly, then it PROBABLY shouldn't kill you in one hit.

Do you know what a tankbuster is? I would think so, since you have an 80 DRK. The person healing you does not need to be told what nearly killed you every time it happens, there is no AOE, and you, playing DRK, should know when to use TBN. By your argument, tankbusters fall into not having indication you're about to be hit with visuals.

Telegraphed attacks, especially one's with a big arm swipe like Hades', are learned and adapted into later content. They're the tank busters for the party.

Originally Posted by Gula

Do you know what a tankbuster is? I would think so, since you have an 80 DRK. The person healing you does not need to be told what nearly killed you every time it happens, there is no AOE, and you, playing DRK, should know when to use TBN. By your argument, tankbusters fall into not having indication you're about to be hit with visuals.

Telegraphed attacks, especially one's with a big arm swipe like Hades', are learned and adapted into later content. They're the tank busters for the party.

Tankbusters aren't 1 hit kills, and tanks have tons of "just in case" mitigation they can pop even if they don't know exactly what's coming.

Coincounter is actually 1 hit killing melee DPS with a move that has absolutely no tell as to what it is or what it will do. That's BS.

I'll repeat, if an attack is something you need to learn by actually being hit by it then it should NOT be a 1 hit kill. If an attack is going to be a 1 hit kill then it needs a telegraph.

Originally Posted by Roda

I mean without the harsh punishment it's at best annyoing, and at worst ignoreable.

You dont' lose much by dying. This isn't some crap game where you lose hours of progress in unrelated content if you die anywhere (deleveling). You simply just have to get up and try again and learn from your mistakes.
If you want to progress, pass the test and just don't get hit by the thing you know kills you.

If you couldn't learn by dying in one hit to an untelegraphed attack, no one would be able to clear extremes/savages.

Death means you can't adjust, and it being in easy content means the group probably won't wipe, so you won't even get a chance to retry and adjust. Pretending that's a learning environment is ridiculous; it's just the laziest possible way to add difficulty to a boss fight for new players.

I'm not saying it's broken and needed to be changed, but I'm still glad they did change it because the way it works is dumb.

Originally Posted by Goji1639

Tankbusters aren't 1 hit kills, and tanks have tons of "just in case" mitigation they can pop even if they don't know exactly what's coming.

Coincounter is actually 1 hit killing melee DPS with a move that has absolutely no tell as to what it is or what it will do. That's BS.

I'll repeat, if an attack is something you need to learn by actually being hit by it then it should NOT be a 1 hit kill. If an attack is going to be a 1 hit kill then it needs a telegraph.

Tank busters are most certainly 1hkos in content that matters. And no, they can't just pop mitigation whenever...


And frankly, if it doesn't kill you, or be followed by something that will, then you won't learn, because why avoid something that doesn't kill you.

Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

Tank busters are most certainly 1hkos in content that matters. And no, they can't just pop mitigation whenever...


And frankly, if it doesn't kill you, or be followed by something that will, then you won't learn.

They can in 99% of content to gauge attacks they're not familiar with. If you're running Savage/Ultimate then researching the fights ahead of time is a given. We're talking about a level 40 something story dungeon. Coincounter isn't needed to prepare anyone for anything.

It's a dumb cheeseball mechanic designed to completely blindside new players, and that's it. I have no problem with it being gone. Pretending it was an important teaching tool is just hilariously stupid.

Originally Posted by Goji1639

A mechanic that has no tells and kills you outright isn't a teacher; it's just an extremely lazy method of creating difficulty.

If you want to create a mechanic with no tells, that forces you to adjust after the fact, then it absolutely should NOT be a 1 hit kill. A mechanic giving you no opportunity to adjust and learn doesn't exist to teach; it exists to be a cheesy unavoidable death for new players.

A death actually is the BEST way to teach someone, if they only get a vuln up/damage down and damage there is a higher chance of them thinking "Well no biggie I can keep going" a death otherwise stops your gameplay and makes you really think about what happened