Thread: 5.3 Preliminary Patch Note

Originally Posted by Ultimatecalibur

Both 10-tonze Swipe and 100-tonze Swing are telegraphed (Swipe has it lifting its club up one handed during the cast while Swing has it grasped in both hands during the cast) and both are repeats of mechanics that a player was expected to have encountered in the Coerthus Central Highlands FATE The Eyes Have It. In the FATE the Cyclops uses 3 cast attacks: 10-tonze Swipe (orange cone AoE), 10-tonze Swing (orange circle AoE) and 100-tonze Swing (no orange circle AoE indicator longer cast time by same AoE as the 10-tonze version). In the FATE you were supposed to connect the terms Swipe with Cone AoE, Swing with Circle AoE and 100-tonze with the powered up version. Later appearances of Cyclops and Minotaur enemies have maintained and expanded upon the mechanics introduced in The Eyes Have It fight.

The biggest problem with Coincounter was that The Eyes Have It stopped being done regularly after 3.1 released and so players first encounter with a Cyclops/Minotaur was with the advanced version(s) instead of the introductory version. These changes are allowing Coincounter function as the introductory Cyclops/Minotaur it has become.

Umm, sorry but no. It being the same as some completely unrelated FATE that most new players would never encounter, because who the hell does FATES, doesn't count as a telegraph. If that mechanic appeared in a story or tutorial instance that was mandatory prior to going into AV then you'd have a point, but as it stands Coincounters attack is just a blindside one hit kill, which is crap design. For most people AV will be their first encounter with that mechanic; and it being a 1-hit kill prevents any learning and adjusting.

Originally Posted by Krotoan

While I agree the one shot aspect was bad.. the learning to read castbars for information lesson was a good one. Especially since there are lots of other cyclopean model based enemies that repeat it. Swipe = get away from front, Swing = Get away. Amnesis has a probably a better implementation of the same mechanic with less punishment.. but the lesson was important for game knowledge.

I don't really buy that Coincounter was an important learning tool for some oh so common mechanic that's going to haunt new players going forward if they don't get familiar fast. IF it is, though, I wouldn't be opposed to simply lowering the damage so you survive it. The knockback and near death damage should be enough to connect the name with the bad you need to avoid. An untelegraphed 1 hit kill will always be bad design, though.

Originally Posted by Goji1639

Umm, sorry but no. It being the same as some completely unrelated FATE that most new players would never encounter, because who the hell does FATES, doesn't count as a telegraph. If that mechanic appeared in a story or tutorial instance that was mandatory prior to going into AV then you'd have a point, but as it stands Coincounters attack is just crap design. For most people AV will be their first encounter with that mechanic; and it being a 1-hit kill prevents any learning and adjusting.

During ARR it was hard to miss The Eyes Have It. It was just off the path when traveling to Whitebrim for the MSQ and Coerthus Central Highlands was one of the FATE grinding hot spots (which was the primary way to level during 2.X). AV was a lot harder to find in that it was an optional dungeon that required taking a detour to unlock it and was only required once you were trying to become a second lieutenant in your grand company.

It was very reasonable to expect knowledge of the FATE when entering AV during 2.X. Only afterwards were players often missing out on expected knowledge.

Originally Posted by Ultimatecalibur

During ARR it was hard to miss The Eyes Have It. It was just off the path when traveling to Whitebrim for the MSQ and Coerthus Central Highlands was one of the FATE grinding hot spots (which was the primary way to level during 2.X). AV was a lot harder to find in that it was an optional dungeon that required taking a detour to unlock it and was only required once you were trying to become a second lieutenant in your grand company.

New players are far more likely to join a GC, which is something that's introduced in the story, than they are to stop and do any random FATES. FATES are pretty much obsolete at this point; they don't count as tutorials.

Even if that FATE might have been an expected tutorial in 2.x that's certainly not true now, so there's no reason for Coincounter to remain as he was.

Originally Posted by EgilTheStressedMage

Because it's easily mitigated by communication, guides, and playing with something that isn't your eyelids. If you choose to not do any, I don't know what to tell you.

Guides are required purely because it's a garbage mechanic. The mechanic is completely indiscernible without some form of outside help. SE shouldn't be leaning on Youtube guides because they don't know how to create mechanics that can be read during the actual fight.

Originally Posted by Iscah

You're trying to argue with someone who is agreeing with your point. It used to be an acceptable design choice, now it is not, so it's good that they're changing it.

He was making a logistics argument that it wasn't technically bad design when it was implemented. While I guess that's fair enough it's kind of beside the point, which is what I said in my response to him. It's bad design now and I'm glad he agrees with the fix.

Originally Posted by LaughingBanana

People focusing on such a really small, inconsequential thing and debating it for pages and pages and pages...

I mean seriously people, you're better than this.

There's no obligation to only debate important things here. It's a forum, we can talk about whatever we want to.