Thread: 5.3 Preliminary Patch Note

Originally Posted by Canada_bangs

[snip]

I honestly do not want to go too much into this, as I have explained my points in my posts.

Here is the thing: it is a trap for new players if new players are only looking for the AOE markers and ignoring all of the other cues. This fight was to break muscle memory so that when you did harder content, you would be looking out for other cues besides the AOE marker.

If people did that, Steps of Faith would not be the wipe-fest as it was released and still after the initial nerfs, complaining about Shinryu, and the raid-ender known as TGCid.

As for the mentioning of action games, Goji opened the door for that one and allowed that one in when he mentioned DS. Goji is the one who owns the frame of the conversation. He could've brought up another MMO (Blade an Soul for example). Of course, I mentioned the shortcomings from that comparison in another post to him.

FFXI, is an MMO, just so you can separate that out from the two more-action oriented games I have referenced.

Originally Posted by Xtrasweettea

I honestly do not want to go too much into this, as I have explained my points in my posts.

Here is the thing: it is a trap for new players if new players are only looking for the AOE markers and ignoring all of the other cues. This fight was to break muscle memory so that when you did harder content, you would be looking out for other cues besides the AOE marker.

If people did that, Steps of Faith would not be the wipe-fest as it was released and still after the initial nerfs, complaining about Shinryu, and the raid-ender known as TGCid.

As for the mentioning of action games, Goji opened the door for that one and allowed that one in when he mentioned DS. Goji is the one who owns the frame of the conversation. He could've brought up another MMO (Blade an Soul for example). Of course, I mentioned the shortcomings from that comparison in another post to him.

FFXI, is an MMO, just so you can separate that out from the two more-action oriented games I have referenced.

I mean I get your point. The biggest thing I agree with G on is the fact that most new players won't know to run from his start up because up to that point I think all the bosses have aoes to a point. Coin is the start of introducing new mechs if my memory is correct. I know someone mentioned a fate that does it but I dunno any new players who seriously does fates. I didn't and noone I know did them while leveling up the first time. I agree with him that is' abit bad but at the same time I also agree that the change wasn't needed. Though the reason why I think it's bad is different. Mostly because the AOEs in this game are lying to you anyway. My only point is most people aren't looking for other clues before they get to coincounter. Now if you want to say that's a player issue then that's a different story, and I'll partly agree with you.

Re: Coincounter (The Rage continues!)

I mean, there needed to be a lesson somewhere that some mobs don't use telegraphs. Did it need to be a boss? Sure, fine, whatever. BUT there could have been lesser versions in an earlier dungeon that were just "harder" trash mobs (think Marlboro level difficulty in Aurum Veil). Or, alternatively, keep the mechanics as is, but only have them deal a very survivable but shocking amount of damage (say 80% max hp to a healer at iLVL).

Originally Posted by kaynide

Re: Coincounter (The Rage continues!)

I mean, there needed to be a lesson somewhere that some mobs don't use telegraphs. Did it need to be a boss? Sure, fine, whatever. BUT there could have been lesser versions in an earlier dungeon that were just "harder" trash mobs (think Marlboro level difficulty in Aurum Veil). Or, alternatively, keep the mechanics as is, but only have them deal a very survivable but shocking amount of damage (say 80% max hp to a healer at iLVL).

Enemies that "don't use telegraphs" should never 1 hit kill. The lack of a telegraph is only acceptable if you're given the opportunity to learn and adjust throughout the course of the fight.

Originally Posted by Goji1639

Enemies that "don't use telegraphs" should never 1 hit kill. The lack of a telegraph is only acceptable if you're given the opportunity to learn and adjust throughout the course of the fight.

Now this I'm two sided one.. on one hand I do agree with that. On the other hand I think it depends on how it's done. If I'm correct you are trying to say it should've been programed better correct? They had the right idea, but the animation he does before the move doesn't match. You don't NEED the aoe to get the point accross, at the same time he needed better more to the point animations if they didn't want to put an AOE marker there. They have done this in the 24 mans and various other bosses. They just goofed on coin I think.

Originally Posted by Darsien

So let me get this straight. A boss that can only 1 shot with a clearly named attack, with a very clear tell and a long cast bar, is causing all this "debate" and grandstanding? How silly.

Thanks for verifying that it's indeed a 1 hit kill; that is the crux of this discussion so it's nice to get that out of the way.

As for the rest, please describe what the "very clear tell" is. The name and long cast bar literally tell you nothing about the attack, and thus don't provide any means to know how to avoid it. So, you see the name "100-Tonze Swing" and you see a long cast bar. Based on that information what is the correct reaction to avoid dying?