Thread: 5.3 Preliminary Patch Note

Originally Posted by JohnSpawnVFX

Dark Souls series has unfair deaths (attacks whose animation doesn't allow you to predict - cheese- them).

Also, DS has been debunked long ago as overhyping what "good gameplay and difficulty" is. No one serious nowadays tries to hold DS as the sole unique example of what gameplay and difficulty design is.

Dark Souls is a fine example of good gameplay and difficulty; the people who try to claim otherwise have usually never even played the games. Please elaborate on the non-reactable 1-hit kills Souls has; you can't just say that without giving an example.

Plenty of games have better gameplay than Souls, though; I think games like Sekiro and Nioh were substantial gameplay improvements. DMC's gameplay is also far more complex. Dark Souls is just the easiest for people to recognize and dissect for conversations like this.

I'm really not trying to step into this Eggman like trap of a debate but I have to wonder. I don't think he's being black or white with the aoe thing. I took it as the boss didn't have good tells to let the player know what they need to do.. without dying. It is a one hit to DPS and Healers. Melees have the worst of it cause most of the time you're in a groove and boom ko like ryu fighting M.Bison on 12 stars in super champ. I'm not saying he saying everything needs an aoe marker.. but he's saying the way the coin was designed was that it was designed badly.Atleast thats what I'm getting out of it.

Like his animations don't match to what he's going to do? That's how I'm taking what Goji is saying. And as a melee player I WISH I knew what he was doing before he did it. I got smashed. And yes.. that's only happened once but still.

And as far as comparing other action games to this mmo... thats abit unfair. Action games - The good ones anyway- make a point to let you know whats what. They have too. As you have to react faster then you should be able to react. So things like animation and poses come into greater effect there. Think of Devil may cry or a Sonic game. sonic unleashed. None of those games would work with XIV's design logic. They are too fast of games. I don't even trust XIV's animations or AOE markers cause XIV has this issue where you have to react ahead of time. Looking at the animations doesn't work.. you'll get hit. You have to move a few seconds BEFORE the aoe marker vanishes. Ugh... I got more invested in this then I was posed too. All I'm saying is unless I missread his intentions is this. I don't think adding the aoe is dumbing it down or a bad thing. It literally is a trap if you're new tho. It got me and alot of other people. Do I think it's bad... it may be. But I also don't get hit by it again so if that was the intent from SE then I guess good job. I dunno... I think I'll just walk out now. - DON'T HATE ME T.T -

Originally Posted by Canada_bangs

And as far as comparing other action games to this mmo... thats abit unfair. Action games - The good ones anyway- make a point to let you know whats what. They have too. As you have to react faster then you should be able to react. So things like animation and poses come into greater effect there. Think of Devil may cry or a Sonic game. sonic unleashed. None of those games would work with XIV's design logic. They are too fast of games. I don't even trust XIV's animations or AOE markers cause XIV has this issue where you have to react ahead of time. Looking at the animations doesn't work.. you'll get hit. You have to move a few seconds BEFORE the aoe marker vanishes. Ugh... I got more invested in this then I was posed too. All I'm saying is unless I missread his intentions is this. I don't think adding the aoe is dumbing it down or a bad thing. It literally is a trap if you're new tho. It got me and alot of other people. Do I think it's bad... it may be. But I also don't get hit by it again so if that was the intent from SE then I guess good job. I dunno... I think I'll just walk out now. - DON'T HATE ME T.T -

lol, you seem to at least understand the point, so maybe I should just talk to you.

The attack is basically a "trap" for new players, and situations that leave you with no information; nothing to react to; no means to successfully deal with it right then and there; etc. are just bad design. Games that are good at this kind of thing make successfully dealing with mechanics difficult, but ENTIRELY possible based on the information and tools you have available. Even if that information is an attack animation that happens in a split second, you still have the tools and information you need to evade it, or survive the hit and adjust, right then and there.

Now MMO's are different, but the principle is still the same. You may have to provide people with different tools and information because of MMO gameplay limitations, but you still have to give them everything they need to succeed in that moment. If you don't it's just laziness or incompetence.