AST fix ever?

[Nhala_Levee]

Well, title telling all.
AST card system will be ever fixed?

[Gemina]

Difficult to say. I don't have a crystal ball, I'm afraid.

My own conclusion that I have arrived at is that this mechanic does not work in this style of mmo, and now they are stuck because they can't just delete it, or AST. I know very little of pre ShB MCH, but that particular job's rework has been well received. AST might be more difficult due to the lore surrounding, and identity tied to those damn cards. I don't think the devs have the same luxury as they did with MCH when it comes to a complete overhaul.

Basically, the job needs Yoshi-P to pull out another rabbit. If it does ever get fixed, it will be entirely different that what we've currently known it to be. That is for certain.

[Monsalvato]

My own conclusion that I have arrived at is that this mechanic does not work in this style of mmo

As much as I absolutely loved the old system with all of my heart, I think this is the real issue. Wish it weren't the case but it's a problem bigger than just AST itself.

I have to say though while the new system is nowhere close as cool and full of depth and decision making as the old one was, it's less "bad" than I expeted it to be.
You still have to choose between different cards for different roles (ranged/melee), you can "play" with gathering 3 different symbols for the full party power up, and then you have a Powered up version of each card that doesn't give you the just mentioned symbols.
I mean of course I liked the old system better, but I was honestly expecting much worse when they announced a homogeneization.
Maybe it's because of my extremely low expectations that in the end I'm not too pissed off about this new, inferior system.

[Gemina]

As much as I absolutely loved the old system with all of my heart, I think this is the real issue. Wish it weren't the case but it's a problem bigger than just AST itself.

I have to say though while the new system is nowhere close as cool and full of depth and decision making as the old one was, it's less "bad" than I expeted it to be.
You still have to choose between different cards for different roles (ranged/melee), you can "play" with gathering 3 different symbols for the full party power up, and then you have a Powered up version of each card that doesn't give you the just mentioned symbols.
I mean of course I liked the old system better, but I was honestly expecting much worse when they announced a homogeneization.
Maybe it's because of my extremely low expectations that in the end I'm not too pissed off about this new, inferior system.

I agree. My gripes with the current card system is not that it's bad; it just isn't fun. Yet, it's the closest to what I consider a true functioning job gauge. Especially in comparison to the other two healers. The jobs I enjoy playing the most right now have interactive gauges that feel rewarding to build up and use. Consideration has to be taken with these job gauges as making the wrong decision with how to use the resource will result in a loss to DPS.

Therein lies the difference. It is why I call ASTs the guys who load the catapults, while the guys who pull the levers get to have all the fun causing the damage. They build up this resource throughout the fight. This resource has one sole use: Divination. There is no decision making process with it. Sure it boosts your damage too, so have fun with that Malefic spam throughout its duration. Could use Lightspeed to ensure you get in all the GCDs inside of its window, but 'bloody 'ell'; you used it during your opener.

What I am getting at is there is no reason why a healer's job gauge cannot enable them to do more damage just like EVERY OTHER ROLE AND JOB IN THE GAME. Misery has been given to WHM, and despite having an entirely passive job gauge that they don't have to do anything to build up other than stay alive; it feels one hundred times more rewarding. If AST card mechanic let them launch some cool skill that does damage, I guarantee this wretched mechanic would immediately feel so much better.

While normally I am on the side of healers being more focused on healing and the devs need to find more ways to engage them as such; I am also aware that it is a bad, very bad idea concept to try and reward healers with more heals when they do good. You reward players in general (regardless of their role) with flashy cool skills that hit hard. This shouldn't be a difficult concept for the devs to grasp; this is quite literally how video game players have been rewarded as long as game's have been around.

[Vyrerus]

No, probably not. They wanted to simplify the cards to make them easier for people to use quickly without much thought so that the lowest common denominator of player would perform closer to the upper crust. The current system has ultimately succeeded in doing that, compared to the older system, regardless of our views on it as players. Even with all the hub-ub about it, I see them letting it stew for the rest of this expansion and the next, and they might even go as far as just eliminating the crest idea so you don't have to care about redraws all that much.

I know I would love for the old system or something like it to come back, but with the changes they've made to the game, they'd have to delete Spire or change its effect. Hehe, an easy change if they did go back to how things were would be to make Spire enact a buff that makes gauge depleting abilities/weaponskills cost half of what they normally would.

[Nhala_Levee]

No, probably not. They wanted to simplify the cards to make them easier for people to use quickly without much thought so that the lowest common denominator of player would perform closer to the upper crust. The current system has ultimately succeeded in doing that, compared to the older system, regardless of our views on it as players. Even with all the hub-ub about it, I see them letting it stew for the rest of this expansion and the next, and they might even go as far as just eliminating the crest idea so you don't have to care about redraws all that much.

I know I would love for the old system or something like it to come back, but with the changes they've made to the game, they'd have to delete Spire or change its effect. Hehe, an easy change if they did go back to how things were would be to make Spire enact a buff that makes gauge depleting abilities/weaponskills cost half of what they normally would.

I dont know, astro is becomed far more complicated than the old one was... Cards are useless and if you have only one type of dps in your group, you cant do anything. 3 reroll simply not enough to roll a card for only ranged dps or only melee dps with the right seal. Maybe in raids have some uses but even that is just dmg so nothing useful. Many astro (when i rarely met one) not even use the cards cause simply no meaning for them and very much more trouble to pick the right one. Meanwhile the tank or the whole team dies. Me just roll the 3 card skill on the tank and like that i can heal too, the buff the cards gives entirely meaningless so no matter if you put all 3 on the tank. And you get an instant aoe dmg boost what is still not realy worthy but well, more than nothing. But still just dmg boost, so not realy have matter if you use it or not.

So basicaly astro becomed a pure heal class, or as many calls nowadays WHM2, but not realy cause whm still have far more heal capacity.
Shorten it up, they made astro far more overcomplicated that it ever was meanwhile they nerf it to ground and i simply dont see any logic in this.
(btw i was main astro before shb, now i still use it but its a heavy struggle compared to the other 2 heals)

[Nhala_Levee]

The old Astro was perfect. Why even needed to bother something that perfect?... Story matched to it, royal road was easy and understandable in every way and it was the best thing in the whole game. Combining the cards into greater effects was the real control over fate as a "fortuneteller" style of story matched to it perfectly. Every card had its uses even if just a filler pulling a greater crit or aoe crit buff or simply just helping out the other heal with mp regen or help survive a whole aoe mechanic of bosses through aoe Bole (dmg reduction buff was back in that time) for whole group. Its ways of use was endless. Yes, needed to feel the character to use it cause you needed creativity for it. Even if you pulled a card that had no use in the moment, you could keep it for later use or royal road it for more effects. It was so perfect.

Now cards and the whole card system is simply meaningless. Cards have no effects, have no uses. Gives dmg... oh my... ah wait! All gives only dmg and nothing useful. No need to rework astrogian. Need simply restore it, nothing more. Only one change would afect the old astro. The overall remake that every class now use only MP, even the Disciple of War classes. But that is easily solvable by makeing The Spire card gives MP instead of TP like in stormblood. And like this, you still only have 2 card what do the same effect, not 6...
And astro become useful again. Thousands of player gived up healing cause of the broke of asto.

Btw, i never understanded why need to try to upgrade what is perfect already...

[Gemina]

The old Astro was perfect. Why even needed to bother something that perfect?... Story matched to it, royal road was easy and understandable in every way and it was the best thing in the whole game. Combining the cards into greater effects was the real control over fate as a "fortuneteller" style of story matched to it perfectly. Every card had its uses even if just a filler pulling a greater crit or aoe crit buff or simply just helping out the other heal with mp regen or help survive a whole aoe mechanic of bosses through aoe Bole (dmg reduction buff was back in that time) for whole group. Its ways of use was endless. Yes, needed to feel the character to use it cause you needed creativity for it. Even if you pulled a card that had no use in the moment, you could keep it for later use or royal road it for more effects. It was so perfect.

It was not perfect. It was broken AF. It was a convoluted mess of RNG, and methods to shave away the layers of it. If that does not convince you, then you need to look no further than the Spire. A card that already had been changed once, only to be turned into a fodder card because there was literally no other use for it. Like the TP it used to refresh, it went away entirely. Similar mentions could be made for all the other cards except for the Balance. That was the only card your party members ever desired. Your enjoyment from the mechanic exists through the illusion of choice. Players accepted your Boles, Ewers, Arrows, and Spears because they knew that sometimes, after all the damn fishing, you still somehow did not end up with the Balance.

The system as it is now is closer to perfection than the previous by far. It just isn't fun. But for the purpose the mechanic serves and always has due to the meta, it works just fine. I know as a DPS, I love having the consistent buffs an AST provides, but as an AST I simply cannot stand being a dmg buff turret.

I don't want you think that I am dismissing your enjoyment with the old mechanic. I understand fully that many AST really enjoyed this system, but you can still play board games with missing pieces. To think it was perfect and did not warrant changes is erroneous thinking. Hopefully if/when they rework it, they can find a way to incorporate some of the things that really made it enjoyable; but if the only way you feel this can happen is by reverting back to the old system, then you are going to be disappointed going forward.

[Nhala_Levee]

It was not perfect. It was broken AF. It was a convoluted mess of RNG, and methods to shave away the layers of it.

It was only broken for those, who didnt had creativity to use the other side of the cards. 1 single card had 3 diferent effect to use it. If you couldnt think out of anything from them, it is only your fault and not the games fault.
I always could used every of the old cards. Every one of them had they own uses and they combinations. TP was useless, maybe yes. But you forgot that The Spire card had 2 other side to use. If you cant come up anything with 3 diferent effect, than this game is not for you, sorry.

[Gemina]

It was only broken for those, who didnt had creativity to use the other side of the cards. 1 single card had 3 diferent effect to use it. If you couldnt think out of anything from them, it is only your fault and not the games fault.
I always could used every of the old cards. Every one of them had they own uses and they combinations. TP was useless, maybe yes. But you forgot that The Spire card had 2 other side to use. If you cant come up anything with 3 diferent effect, than this game is not for you, sorry.

Lack of creativity is what has caused issues for AST in the first place. Instead of creating a true third healer, they decided to make AST a job that could fill in for whatever the group needed. Since this was done poorly, AST were left in the dust for prog raid content. In order to get more players to use AST, they once again showed a lack of creativity and just overtuned it to the stratosphere.

No, no. If you want use creativity as your angle, then I would trace it all the way back to the roots. Players have always shown an exceptional amount of creativity in mmos, and because most follow the path of least resistance; if there is an exploit to be found, they will find it. Yet, AST card mechanic remained, and basically remains the same: Draw the right three cards in order to boost everyone's damage. Any, and I do mean any utility from the cards other than DMG boosts was not desired by your party members. If your fishing resulted in something other than the Balance, then you use it if the situation warrants it, and if not then you just used minor arcana instead. Another broken ability back then because you did not always need the heal.

I am also not sure what you're talking about with each card having three different effects. Each card had one effect that could be augmented three different ways, but those augments were the same for every card: 50%potency+AoE, 200% duration, or 150% potency iirc. From those, you would always aim to get the AoE, despite how nice the other ones were.