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  1. #391
    Player

    Join Date
    Jul 2020
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    1,759
    Quote Originally Posted by Veis_Alveare View Post
    It'd literally be less impactful to the success of the run to not participate in a normal raid than it is to pull small. Less time would be wasted. Pulling small is just basically AFKing anyways - tank doesn't need CDs and the healer can either tunnel vision dps or curebot.

    Your part of the fight as anyone in a dungeon is to facilitate the expedient completion of the instance, same as any other group content. Baby pulling is literally not doing your job.
    Wrong again. There is no decrease in success for pulling small in dungeons. And "expedient completion" doesn't make any sense in this context, unless you mean suitable/appropriate, which small pulls definitely fall into that category.

    Quote Originally Posted by LittleImp View Post
    lol.
    Modern MMOs favor efficiency, and rewards gained are usually compared to the time spent to obtain them. Rewards are looked at in terms of Xp/HR or Tomes/HR. Time has direct value in terms of rewards / character progression. Expectations around this are still fairly tempered, but no one wants to spend 2 hours doing daily grind content when they could spend 1 or less and use the rest doing other things like crafting or raiding.

    If someone is left with only a few hours to play because of work, I think they'd rather not spend all of it held hostage in their dailies exclusively because someone has decided it's acceptable to put 0 effort into playing a cooperative game.
    Small pulls don't take 2 hours, so wrong again.

    Quote Originally Posted by phantomr23 View Post
    It's an additive sort of thing. If every single-pulling tank adds five minutes onto your run, consider just how many dungeons you run over the course of your playtime in FFXIV. It's not like individual runs will be utterly awful - though I have had some trainwreck runs in the 40-60 minute range, but it's definitely something that eats your time up.
    Consider what it adds in a single day, as it's a daily metric. If you don't have enough playtime in a given day to account for a few minutes of extra time, then maybe spend your day doing something else or go premade.
    (4)

  2. #392
    Player
    RognarB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Posts
    43
    Character
    Momeen Dapoulet
    World
    Lamia
    Main Class
    Dragoon Lv 80
    Dungeons have been done so often that most players would rather spend as little time as possible inside them. You might want to do eureka type content who lets you go at your own pace and pick and choose your participation rate. Which is refreshing after months and months of raids and dungeons. Big shame that NUreka only gets released in 5.35 which is probably in late september.
    (2)

  3. #393
    Player
    LittleImp's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Posts
    1,204
    Character
    Lil Imp
    World
    Goblin
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by linayar View Post
    Small pulls don't take 2 hours, so wrong again.
    Flailing your hands and declaring someone wrong with no actual counter-argument doesn't really lend much to your stance, it just kind of undermines it and makes it look weaker.
    Feel free to address the actual points in my post at your convenience.
    (4)

  4. #394
    Player
    Penthea's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    3,664
    Character
    Nettle Creidne
    World
    Moogle
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by LittleImp View Post
    Flailing your hands and declaring someone wrong with no actual counter-argument doesn't really lend much to your stance, it just kind of undermines it and makes it look weaker.
    Feel free to address the actual points in my post at your convenience.
    So saying content that normally takes an hour takes becomes two hours with certain types of tanks isn't a point you wanted discussed? Then why say it? You could have just said "I don't want to spend longer than usual" instead of making the very unrealistic claim that single pull tanks make content take twice as long to do.

    Your post has some valid points but saying that content ends up taking twice as long only serves to weaken them. There needs to be far more going on than just single pulls for that happen.
    (4)
    Last edited by Penthea; 08-08-2020 at 05:17 PM. Reason: a word

  5. #395
    Player

    Join Date
    Jul 2020
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    1,759
    Quote Originally Posted by LittleImp View Post
    Flailing your hands and declaring someone wrong with no actual counter-argument doesn't really lend much to your stance, it just kind of undermines it and makes it look weaker.
    Feel free to address the actual points in my post at your convenience.
    My counter-argument is that your premise is wrong. If the basis of your argument is wrong, then your argument falls apart. Maybe try to learn what makes for a weak argument, because it's your argument that is weak.
    (3)

  6. #396
    Player Veis_Alveare's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Posts
    678
    Character
    Veis Alve'are
    World
    Coeurl
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by linayar View Post
    Wrong again. There is no decrease in success for pulling small in dungeons. And "expedient completion" doesn't make any sense in this context, unless you mean suitable/appropriate, which small pulls definitely fall into that category.
    Tfw you dont even know what the word expedient means.
    (4)

  7. #397
    Player
    iAxX23's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Posts
    37
    Character
    Casey Mino
    World
    Omega
    Main Class
    Machinist Lv 90
    The majority of people playing this game understand that rushing through a dungeon saves everyone loads of time.

    If you dislike doing content this way make a PF or queue for it with your friends. If you try to enforce your slow movement through the dungeon without pulling more, letting the healer or dps that pulled die you're going to get kicked.

    You either adapt or play with friends that like doing content like you.
    (5)

  8. #398
    Player

    Join Date
    Jul 2020
    Posts
    1,759
    Quote Originally Posted by Veis_Alveare View Post
    Tfw you dont even know what the word expedient means.
    - (of an action) convenient and practical although possibly improper or immoral.

    - (of an action) suitable or appropriate.

    If it's the first definition, are you saying there is something immoral/improper about pulling large?

    If it's the second definition, then I said pulling small fits that definition for completing a dungeon in an expedient manner.

    And even if it's the first definition without the moral issue, pulling small is also convenient and practical as well. I've never seen a group wipe for pulling too small. I've seen a group wipe for pulling too big.
    (1)

  9. #399
    Player Veis_Alveare's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Posts
    678
    Character
    Veis Alve'are
    World
    Coeurl
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by linayar View Post
    - (of an action) convenient and practical although possibly improper or immoral.

    - (of an action) suitable or appropriate.

    If it's the first definition, are you saying there is something immoral/improper about pulling large?

    If it's the second definition, then I said pulling small fits that definition for completing a dungeon in an expedient manner.

    And even if it's the first definition without the moral issue, pulling small is also convenient and practical as well. I've never seen a group wipe for pulling too small. I've seen a group wipe for pulling too big.
    Baby pulls aren't convenient, they're a giant waste of time.

    Do better.
    (8)

  10. #400
    Player

    Join Date
    Jul 2020
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    1,759
    Quote Originally Posted by Veis_Alveare View Post
    Baby pulls aren't convenient, they're a giant waste of time.

    Do better.
    A few extra minutes are not a giant waste of time.
    (5)

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