I'm gonna say something unpopular: I don't like to rush.

[LittleImp]

Personally I don't mind wiping if teaches a rude player a lesson.

And that makes you toxic. You're willing to intentionally and maliciously obstruct the entire party because someone does something that upsets you personally.

No one should be silently pulling extra packs and just expecting the tank to just take care of it. If you're not mannerly enough to even say anything about it first, then you don't really deserve the tank's protection.

This thread started specifically in reference to endgame roulettes; Mass pulling is the standard so most people don't see a necessity to communicate about it. Sometimes people don't even notice the tank has stopped at the first pack of mobs, and accidentally sprint ahead into the aggro range of the next pack.

I'm quite disappointed to see how common it is for people to basically say "ya I know doing that is rude but the tank should just be the better person and deal with it". Gosh, putting all the moral weight and responsibility on the tank while the rude people who pull silently are supposed to just get away with it. How lovely. Really glad I'm not in the same data centre as some of you.

It's even more disappointing to see how many people endorse literal, bannable griefing as a justified emotional response to the situation.

The reason the 'Burden' is placed on the tank in this situation is because a single-pulling tank in an endgame roulette is widely considered a detriment to the party; They're playing in a way that is considered obstructive/slow by most players doing endgame roulettes, and (assuming they've cleared the dungeon before), they're doing so out of incompetence.

[Penthea]

And that makes you toxic. You're willing to intentionally and maliciously obstruct the entire party because someone does something that upsets you personally.

Lol this is hilarious. You are calling me toxic because I won't let someone have their way without even asking anyone about it. Apparently I'm supposed to just let everyone do what they want, change my playstyle to match and if I don't I'm toxic? What I want or what I can do doesn't matter? Only what other people want matters? Buzz off with that hypocrisy. No one exists just to satisfy the silent whims of another player regardless of your role.

This thread started specifically in reference to endgame roulettes; Mass pulling is the standard so most people don't see a necessity to communicate about it. Sometimes people don't even notice the tank has stopped at the first pack of mobs, and accidentally sprint ahead into the aggro range of the next pack.

First of all mass pulling does not mean you always pull everything. Secondly I have NEVER seen anyone say "oh didn't notice you stopped moving" to a tank because it's pretty damn obvious considering they're being followed by a bunch of mobs. Not saying it never happens but I would find it hard to believe that it is anything other than rare. A tank pulling multiple packs is not exactly subtle behaviour.

The reason the 'Burden' is placed on the tank in this situation is because a single-pulling tank in an endgame roulette is widely considered a detriment to the party; They're playing in a way that is considered obstructive/slow by most players doing endgame roulettes, and (assuming they've cleared the dungeon before), they're doing so out of incompetence.

But people are not talking about only single pack pulls!

I have seen plenty of people pull extra packs onto the tank when the tank was already tanking more than one pack.

[Alleluia]

Except the context is different. They're pulling to speed up the run and have no intention of causing a wipe whereas you refusing to pull off them is entirely out of pettiness while knowing full well said pettiness can lead to a wipe.

Even if you subscribe to the belief pulling for the tank is rude. Allowing the party to potential wipe so you can "teach them a lesson" is far worse.

Aren't they pulling more than the tank wants to to essentially teach *them* a lesson? Specifically in how they think the dungeon should be tanked?

[LaylaTsarra]

Aren't they pulling more than the tank wants to to essentially teach *them* a lesson? Specifically in how they think the dungeon should be tanked?

If they continued to pull after politely asking them to stop I'd simply step back and let them tank them.

[Alleluia]

If they continued to pull after politely asking them to stop I'd simply step back and let them tank them.

Agreed. Also, it'd have to be clear they went and pulled, instead of just accidentally positioned wrong and drew aggro.

But if the tank doesn't want to tank more and that has been made clear, then "you spank it, you tank it" is perfectly valid.

[HeulGDarian]

There is actually a perfect boss that i completely hate that test if you can do or not a big pull. The second boss of amaurot. Idk about you but if you can survive the 15 adds it throws at you then its pretty silly to go back to pulling 1. I will also say that the thing that dictates how fast a dungeon will go is not how much you pull but how good your dps is, even on big pulls if youre a good dps then you can help a tank or a heal who is undergeared by the virtue of they cant kill you if they are dead. That beeing said id prefer if people didnt do small pulls because it literally neuters my contribution as a dps , since my job at single pulls can be done by a trust.

Not only that it cant be stated enough but it is not a playstyle ,because:
1) youre not playing differently
2) you slow down the pace for the rest of the players as well
Unless the reason is being im new or i dont have gear , it doesnt do you any favors , at some point you will meet people who want to go faster , or adds that hit harder, you will have to hit those extra buttons. The thing that worries me the most though is that , this comment wont change your minds and the game will continue to either stay stale on difficulty or worse it will get even easier. Accessibility has not been implemented well this expansion , accessibility shouldnt be make all jobs easier it should be teach the players better.


It all doesnt matter though , when 2 players are talking, how to get a guy who simply pulled more adds , banned and the reaction it gets is meh lets continue our talk instead of reporting for wanting to abuse the report system , then you get a pretty good picture about the mentality of this forum. it isnt about how to improve relationships between the 2 groups so that they can both be satisfied, its about your own egos. Thankfully inside the game people are more patient and understanding , and they just leave if they dont like it.

[linayar]

Idk about you but if you can survive the 15 adds it throws at you then its pretty silly to go back to pulling 1.

This game is filled with silliness. That's not a bad thing.

Not only that it cant be stated enough but it is not a playstyle ,because:
1) youre not playing differently

Not really. There is a chance to single target if the pack is small enough.

2) you slow down the pace...

And a different pacing is also a different playstyle.

It's why some people can't get used to FFXIV's longer GCD compared to some other games that also have a GCD. GCD is GCD, but having it be longer is enough of a playstyle difference for some people.

[odintius]

The duty finder was a mistake make party finder the go to tool their I said it feel much better now k bye....!

[Kamome-chan]

If you want to pull you play a tank
If you have a problem with the tank not pulling enough well next time you'll queue as one of the for tank jobs.

[Veis_Alveare]

Lol this is hilarious.

...

I have seen plenty of people pull extra packs onto the tank when the tank was already tanking more than one pack.

I have run past so many tanks it's not even funny.

There are normal pulls in level cap dungeons. All of them currently are full pulls even though many only consist of two packs. The only debatable area of any level 80 dungeon where I can say I've seen people split things up with any regularity (and by that I mean like more than a handful of times) is the final pull in Anemesis (sp?) Anyder. Everything else is so standardized.

I don't tank experts, I tend to heal them because dead weight healers bother me more than anything, and I've had plenty of stuff aggro on me because a tank decided they wanted to break from the norm and stop at a single pack. I also understand that that is their norm and that if they're only tanking they aren't seeing the pulls other tanks are making. I don't freak out on them for me having threat for a bit... but you bet that I expect they catch on up and grab the things off of me.

Single pulls aren't normal to most players. Some people on the forums may exist in a bubble where they are but that's an extreme about as uncommon as bleeding edge raiders. The majority of people exist in the middle and that level of play is good enough to clear 2+ packs at a time even if it isn't going lightning fast.

Please, anyone, point out where someone claimed that everyone needed Savage+ dps and everything needed to be done in 12 minutes or disband? This is a meme argument and not one that is even humorous. Press your AoE buttons, grab enough to make AoE worth it and get through the content. It isn't hard.