Fame

[Majidah]

No, I didn't. Putting in effort means learning mechanics and adapting to those mechanics. Putting in effort means gearing yourself accordingly. Putting in effort means coming prepared to events with food, potions, medicine, all ready to go.

Putting in "EFFORT" does not mean turning in 100000000000 millioncorn just because it "UNLOCKS" the ability for me to PUT IN EFFORT into other things.

Handouts, the silver platter, etc, other "freebies" as you claim, do not equate to accessibility. Accessibility means I can do things when I want to, when I want to, and however I want to. It doesn't mean I want a handout.

A fame system, especially the one being used in XI, is a direct contradiction to accessibility. It is a BLOCK and a HINDRANCE that is completely unnecessary and simply prevents people from completing, and most of all EXPERIENCING content.

XIV doesn't need restrictive content.

Oh so what you are saying is that you are against any pre requirements. I bet you hate AV. You'd be opposed to lets say, areas such as sea and sky to be implemented on XIV too then.

I'm tired of people thinking that playing this game, just playing, because its not even challenging, equals to effort and that anything that takes time doesn't.

To become known by other NPCs through your deeds makes sense. It gives immersion. It gives a sense of accomplishment.

Its not an outdated mechanic, its something that makes sense. FFXIV is a role playing game, not some knock the bottles game at a theme park. So play your role. You start from the bottom and you build yourself up into something.

[Zenaku]

No. I've done the same with suggestions from other games that were unjustified or would not fit with the current direction FFXIV is going. What would fame even do right now for the game? This topic is literally nothing more than "let's put it in here without putting any thought into it."




I'm sorry, I thought FF players hated cloned games? I mean, you guys make fun of WOW and Korean grinder clones all day, yet here you are asking for a clone of a game that is still running.

It's not the same when it's the same company Aion,rift,tera are not from blizzard so it does not matter they just trying to be king of the mmo. Now FFXIV should have had all that FFXI had but 10better and diff to fit the game but they ended up trying to make a new mmo with everything far from FFXI to see if other would join that failed. the new job system work more or less the same as FFXI but better and diff they even releasing a type of campaign/garrsion system in 1.22 but better and diff if they keep that up they can get all there players from ffxi to jump on to ffxiv. Because let's be honest all players who enjoy wow and wow type clones like aion,rfit and tera don't really like how ffxi is they like open pvp system that yoshi-p said many time no too. They like how wow and other wow type game play and ffxiv is not in that speed in battle or in gameplay not even the boss are close to what boss are like in wow type games. So all players who join ffxiv would be FFXI players,people who never play a mmo or wow players that are sick of mmo that follow wow which there a few now on ffxiv that i talked too.

FFXIV should not try and copy other games 100% but should use there ideas and everything ffxi had should be in ffxiv because it's there own game and it was dumb idea that ffxiv had noting from ffxi every mistake they learn ffxi was not even fix in ffxiv -.-

[Morticous]

Good to know you have no counter arguments or real points. Bet you still think you're right.

It's hard to argue with stupid, so I've decided not to.

[TheVedis]

It's hard to argue with stupid, so I've decided not to.

you guys make such great points when all you do is insult each other to prove your points, it makes you look like you are really in the right

[Platinumstorm]

Oh so what you are saying is that you are against any pre requirements. I bet you hate AV. You'd be opposed to lets say, areas such as sea and sky to be implemented on XIV too then.

I'm tired of people thinking that playing this game, just playing, because its not even challenging, equals to effort and that anything that takes time doesn't.

To become known by other NPCs through your deeds makes sense. It gives immersion. It gives a sense of accomplishment.

Its not an outdated mechanic, its something that makes sense. FFXIV is a role playing game, not some knock the bottles game at a theme park. So play your role. You start from the bottom and you build yourself up into something.

Fame is not what I would traditionally consider a prerequisite; more of a mechanic that delays advancement by having a player repeat or make unnecessary trips that doesn't directly affect the player's lore, skill, or knowledge. The argument for fame has been mostly shut down in this thread, so I'd like to address your statements about prerequisites.

You specifically mentioned AV's prerequisite of having completed Denzemal Darkhold. At the beginning of patch 1.21, that prerequisite wasn't really a arduous task to conquer, but that doesn't mean it was a great idea. The problem with that kind of a prerequisite is that once that main content is passed, there's an undue burden placed on those who are entering the game, or advancing through the game at a slower pace than others. These are important considerations because we live on Earth, and we play games that don't have constantly replenishing populations [even with people needing to level up multiple jobs]. Now, some may say that "Level sync" is the key to this, but even with level sync added to FFXI, you still had to find people who were very generous and willing to go out of their way to help you advance past the content. This sometimes means that developers have to go back after implementing content and then reworking it so the restrictions that inflict unnecessary burden on newer players are removed.

You seem to be interested in the sense of immersion. Immersion and lore can be accomplished without hard [and by hard I mean a yes/no check, not difficulty] lock-outs. For example if a player does 100 dps, but a fight requires an average of 110 dps per damage role, then that player is a hindrance to a group. Unless he improves in skill or has a group that is skilled enough to make up for that difference, then he isn't ready for that kind of content. That's known as a soft prerequisite.

For lore, Shposhae has several NPC's that stand outside of it informing travelers of what lurks beneath; and even helps to explain what it is. Quests that help a player understand the lore can be added, along with a cinematic and story presentation without needing to place my previously referenced hard check.

You're also talking about accomplishment, but accomplishment comes from completing content - not doing the tasks that you are given before-hand, just so you can say, "alright, now I can actually try this content that I wanted to do".

If you're worried about a specific permutation to experience content, then you're more than welcome to experiencing it in the order you wish to yourself, and you don't have to hinder others in the process. I know that I have gone through dungeons in other games in a specific order because it made sense to me. Some people don't care about that, and it doesn't hurt anyone that they feel that way. In Elder Scrolls: Skyrim there is a "fast travel" option. Because older Elder Scrolls games do not have a "fast travel" option, I chose not to use it. I wasn't hurt by anyone using the quicker method, but I also was able to be personally satisfied for what mattered to me.

So no, prerequisites aren't outdated mechanics, and they can be used effectively to demand increases in player skill and help players become familiarized with both lore aspects and game mechanics. Fame, however, was constructed in a way that is very outdated in that it doesn't promote any of those categories, and has remnants of it scattered in a more positive way in the Grand Companies.

You're right, FFXIV is slapped with the "role-playing game" label; today that means something a lot different than it did fifteen years ago, but more importantly, you can play the role you want to play without interfering with the role that others want to.

[tymora]

Putting in "EFFORT" does not mean turning in 100000000000 millioncorn just because it "UNLOCKS" the ability for me to PUT IN EFFORT into other things.

No repeatable quests. That would solve your problem.

Keep repeatables for GC turn-ins.

I rather liked NPC's speech recognizing your existence in the world as you finish quests and didn't quite mind the fame system.

[abby]

FFXIV should be it's own MMO and not like others end of story, and I'm agreeing with Wolfie 100% here.

[Halvaard_Vidan]

Fame is not what I would traditionally consider a prerequisite; more of a mechanic that delays advancement by having a player repeat or make unnecessary trips that doesn't directly affect the player's lore, skill, or knowledge.

You specifically mentioned AV's prerequisite of having completed Denzemal Darkhold. At the beginning of patch 1.21, that prerequisite wasn't really a arduous task to conquer, but that doesn't mean it was a great idea. The problem with that kind of a prerequisite is that once that main content is passed, there's an undue burden placed on those who are entering the game, or advancing through the game at a slower pace than others. These are important considerations because we live on Earth, and we play games that don't have constantly replenishing populations ...

The underlined makes me scratch my head...

There really is no "problem" with requiring A to do B.
The usual concept of an MMO is do do things in groups, when things first come out, everyone is interested and it's easy to make groups.
Afterwards you'll need *gasp* friends to help you get a group to get things done.

If you can't be bothered to find a Linkshell(or guild) where you can make friends, I don't see why anyone would stick around in any MMO.

[Platinumstorm]

The underlined makes me scratch my head...

There really is no "problem" with requiring A to do B.
The usual concept of an MMO is do do things in groups, when things first come out, everyone is interested and it's easy to make groups.
Afterwards you'll need *gasp* friends to help you get a group to get things done.

If you can't be bothered to find a Linkshell(or guild) where you can make friends, I don't see why anyone would stick around in any MMO.

I made a detailed effort trying to show why hard-check prerequisites have negative consequences for game development. It's very easy to understand, to me, how it could be difficult for those I mentioned to be able to meet prerequisites once the focus on the main content has shifted; and when that main content is no longer a primary focus. Linkshells and "player kindness" are not the end-all-be-all to poor design decisions; because when player-kindness fails companies lose game subscriptions. It's not necessary that player-kidness fails, but that it also imposes certain requirements on active linkshell members such as the following: the linkshell members must be online at the same time as the new player - have an adequate amount of play time to manage the content, aren't currently busy with content or scheduled to have content shortly. When these things don't match up the player who is behind has a very negative experience, feels that the game is insurmountable without being carried [i.e. lack of accomplishment], and is never going to be able to catch up. These things lose subscriptions because it's relying fully on the traditional community to get things done.

[Pyretta_Blaze]

I am in favor of more ways to show character development through fame/reputation progression. The current GC system does reward us for doing things for them in seals which in turn we can use to rank up and purchase items.

I would like to see us able to have a reputation with the common NPC's or even factions of some sort might be a neat twist too. Perhaps in 2.0 something related to our free companies. We could have a personal reputation or fame system and then our free company might have its own rep too.

Also, for new people needing help getting prerequsites unlocked... I answer shouts now and join PUG groups for Darkhold and baby ifrit and lots of other stuff all the time. If people will actually ask for help, the help is there. A new person will have to do like the rest of us already did, make friends, join LSes, and request help.