Major flaws in healing design.

[Daniolaut]

Currently the FFXIV community is displeased with the healing jobs, and there are major flaws with the design of healing overall.

I have witnessed numerous times, including just recently, situations where healers are not punished for failing to perform their funtions.

There are no systems in place to punish healers for not doing their job, and there are too many mitigation actions across other jobs, which "award" healers the opportunity to avoid usiing mitigation/healing actions themselves.

The players say healing is too boring, and the offensive actions are too few, so here is my proposed solution, based on current existing problems.

Problem:

1.) Healers not topping off tanks before tank busters, and not shielding tanks for tank busters, then also not healing tanks after tank busters resulting to tanks dying to auto attacks.

This is extremely frequent, in so much it happens often.

I literally just checked a healers history, and they rank "the highest among damage for healing" so even in their mind they are a great healer. When I just watched a tank at around 60% take a tank buster, drop to 5% and then die to auto attacks. The boss then proceeded to kill other players after the other tank died. The other healer raised the tank, and this person told the tank to provoke. They never hardcast anything besides their 2 damage attacks.

(Edit: I wrote this last sentence at the time, to avoid calling out which job it was. I never "saw" them cast the spell Dia, as thats impossible. Clearly what I meant, was they "hardcast" only "glare" but I said "2 damage attacks" because I assumed they were also using Dia. Dia is not a 'long cast" spell, but is part of the GCD which is what I meant by "hard cast" to begin with. So to further clarify anyone trying to blab nonsense. Here is what this sentence means:
a.) I watched healer only "casting" the spell Glare.
b.) I assumed healer was using dia.
c.) I also assumed healer was using assize.
Aside from these 3 things, I cannot say what the healer was or was not using. What I did very specifically notice, was the healer was casting glare very frequently. Then I watched the main tank drop to around 60% hp. Then I watched the boss cast a tank buster, I watched the said healer continue to cast only glare. Then I watched the tank drop to around 1-5% HP, and said healer continued to only cast glare, then I saw the tank die. Said healer only casting glare yet still. Then I saw the other tank die, then I saw the dps die, then I saw the other healer raise the tank. Then this said healer told the tank to provoke. and once the tank did, the mentioned healer continued to only cast glare. This type of thing, happens not only in story mode raids, but as well as savage mode raids. To me I find this to be a serious issue, and I dont know of any other way to address it, except what little time I spent thinking of a simple solution, very quickly.)

2.) Damage dealing roles have too many mitigation actions, reducing the need for healers to perform any healing/mitigation functions, resulting in even lower performance from healers.

In short:
Healers are not punished for not healing the tanks or party. Healers are "rewarded" by party members performing at higher levels utilizing their actions. Healers then complain of boredom.

Solution:
Ensure, if that a healer fails to maintain the tanks survivial they are the first to die.

Remove mitigation from damage dealing jobs, and add them to healers, so healers have more responsiblity. They say they are bored anyway. Healers should be 100% responsible for the parties survival. Failing to keep players alive should result in their death.

Additional solution:
It would also be beneficial, to where if any mechanic is failed, it results in a damage down debuff, instead of damage taken. This also ensures players perform mechanics, and do not punsh healers for their mistakes.

Additional problem:
Currently any tank can fill the role of "main tank" and "off tank."
Healing role assignments, only SCH and AST can fill the role for shielding, and WHM and AST can fill the role of regens. Until this is addressed, healers will never truly be balanced.

[Deceptus]

[Daniolaut]

I especially like this idea, because it puts the proper responsibility onto healers, and removes the "boring, healers have nothing to do besides spam one attack" complaint.

It also gives the opportunity to restore the actions "protect" and "shell."

Feint > Protect:

Role Ability
Protect:
Type-Ability
Cast-Instant
Recast-90s
MP Cost-0
Range-15-20y
Increases parties physical defense by 10%.
Duration: 10s

Addle > Shell:
Shell:
Type-Ability
Cast-Instant
Recast-90s
MP Cost-0
Range-15-20y
Increases parties magical defense by 10%.
Duration: 10s

It also removes AST from being the only healer that can perform both shield and regen capabilities.

[Daniolaut]

Nothing.

And of course this can be the only response, people who want to cooperate aren’t going to like this idea.

Forcing them to do mechanics, and cooperate is clearly nothing they want to do.

They dont actually want healers to have to heal as well as deal damage, or be complex.

They want to complain and say healing is boring, because they want more damage actions so they can continue to claim they are good, while allowing tanks to die to auto attacks.

It happens all the time. I just finished witnessing this happening. A 99% "healer" spamming glare over and over, and then the tank dying after taking a tank buster at 60% HP, then not getting shielded or healed, prior or after the tank buster, resulting in death.

Of course they can only say i'm trolling. They have no other excuse.

Whoa! That's crazy dude!

Just the other day I saw something as well! I saw a tank who was supposed to use their invuln skill on an incoming tankbuster, but didn't use it! Now, I was expecting him to be at 1 HP for 8 seconds, enough time for my Dia refresh to come back so I could Benediction him at no cost. But he died within an auto-attack! What a silly billy, I didn't even have time to react! I sighed, and my cohealer (an AST, who loses less damage to Raise people) raised him as soon as they could.

This happens far far less than what I mentioned.

This was a 99% savage healer in a story mode raid, refusing to heal.

So they let 4-5 people die (both tanks died and boss then killed a DPS) and lay dead because the other healer was only able to keep theirself, the tank and the remaking crew up.

It happens all the time, and there is no way to combat it. The 99%er thinks they are something special, while everyone else has to die because they refuse to do their job.

Also most all 1shot tank busters can be handled another way instead of forcing the tank to invuln. That’s just the “popular” method because then healers won’t have to do anything besides the WHM pressing 1 button that is a oGCD.

Try again?

[YusiKha]

Whoa! That's crazy dude!

Just the other day I saw something as well! I saw a tank who was supposed to use their invuln skill on an incoming tankbuster, but didn't use it! Now, I was expecting him to be at 1 HP for 8 seconds, enough time for my Dia refresh to come back so I could Benediction him at no cost. But he died within an auto-attack! What a silly billy, I didn't even have time to react! I sighed, and my cohealer (an AST, who loses less damage to Raise people) raised him as soon as they could.

[Darkmoonrise]

Mmmmmh that a strange point of view. Ok if the healer fails at its job the death order is "Tank then others". But if you analyse the other possibilities, it's never the one failing who dies first. If the tank fails a positional and the party takes a cleave, the death order is "Other then tank". If the tank fails to take aggro then again it's "Other then tank". If the DPS fails the DPS check, everybody dies, not only the DPS.

Everybody is playing in a group. If someone in the group fails, the group is punished, not the player. That's how group content works.

[Deceptus]

And of course this can be the only response, people who want to cooperate aren’t going to like this idea.

Because it's a bad idea. And why is it a bad idea?

Solution:
Ensure, if that a healer fails to maintain the tanks survivial they are the first to die.

Because if the tanks bite it, everyone is going to die eventually. Who cares who is first to die?

Forcing them to do mechanics, and cooperate is clearly nothing they want to do.

Savage tier people are lazy in content they vastly outgear or content they've done thousands of time. News at 11.

Oh and this:

They never hardcast anything besides their 2 damage attacks.

Shows you either made this up or have no idea what you're talking about. Healers only have 1 hard cast damage ability. Stone / Glare (WHM), Ruin / Broil (SCH), and Malefic (AST)

They dont actually want healers to have to heal as well as deal damage, or be complex.

If you know anything about me or my post history you'd know I am an advocate for people using their entire kit.

Of course they can only say i'm trolling. They have no other excuse.

You post on a character who only has 1 job at LEVEL 1 and don't think people will call you out for trolling? Post on your main or get out. Oh wait, you probably can't because it's banned from the forums.



Look, you had a bad run. You probably ended up clearing it eventually. No need to come to the forums and complain.

[Crushnight]

OP.

Healers are the most simplistic they have ever been, so much so that people are complaining a lot more about being bored, if people still can't handle balancing both healing and dpsing, tough cookies, stop trying to come up with ways to punish the good healers more because others can handle it.

An example which would punish healers based on what you want, a tank is a troll gets hit by everything eventually healer can't handle the 16 stacked tank and they die, your suggestion has the healer die immediately because couldn't keep tank alive, if you changed it to dmg down welp your timer is healer mp as failing mechanics will still cause hp damage which have to be healed up, again punishing the healer for doing nothing wrong.

Your suggestion is just punishing healers for the sake of it because you have had bad experiences which i'm doubtful of having as much as you are claiming.

As for regen/shield healer thing, welcome to the healer forums, Whm had shielding they removed it, yet other healers keeped their shields and regens, SE's bad design decisions are talked aplenty with numerous ways to improve it.

While removing all mitigation/healing form non tanks/healers would increase our healing time(barely like 10% max so instead of 60%-90% we spend 50%-80%, riveting >_>), the core issue will still remain with the healers and healers will still say they are bored.

[Daniolaut]

Because it's a bad idea. And why is it a bad idea?

Because if the tanks bite it, everyone is going to die eventually. Who cares who is first to die?

Its not a bad idea. Tanks dying should basically result in a wipe. That is exactly what the tanks are there to do. Prevent the party from taking damage.

You only dont want this to happen, because of the exact reasons I mentioned in my original post, and you specifically avoided that very statement.

Savage tier people are lazy in content they vastly outgear or content they've done thousands of time. News at 11.

Oh and this:

Then "savage tier people" shouldnt be using duty finder. Especially if they have a mentor crown on, and arent going to fully participate. I thought "savage tier people" were the ones who wanted everything to go swiftly. No matter what they do?

Shows you either made this up or have no idea what you're talking about. Healers only have 1 hard cast damage ability. Stone / Glare (WHM), Ruin / Broil (SCH), and Malefic (AST)

Or its a typo and you're too arrogant to realize I was implying they hardcast ... glare, as specifically mentioned. and "used" their other damage spell. Honestly I didnt even look to see if they used dia, but I'm sure they did. They also used assize, as that has damage on it too. But you didnt include that in your statement, so you must obviously not know what you're talking about either, since you couldnt deduce what I was trying to say. I shouldnt have to spell everything out perfectly flawlessly and not expect to get trolled for it. I would like to assume people understand whats being conveyed. But no, the forums are people like you, quick to insult, slow to discuss. Which is directly counterproductive, and why the NA forums are mostly ignored.

I know 100% of what i'm talking about. Just because I say something less that "exact" doesnt mean its "wrong." I dont sit on the forums all day every day, and spend time proof reading. I type extremely quickly and edit as needed. Which is why often my posts are edited. I see a typo and go back and edit it. or add something I missed.

If you know anything about me or my post history you'd know I am an advocate for people using their entire kit.


You post on a character who only has 1 job at LEVEL 1 and don't think people will call you out for trolling? Post on your main or get out.

No I know nothing about you. I dont stalk other people on the forums.....

Likely clearly you and anyone who cares what level i'm posting as seem to do.

I actually enjoy the limit low level characters have on the forums. Its a nice little reminder "hey you've been on the forums too much today." If I could set my own daily limit, maybe I would post on my main.

Seriously though, the only reason you want to know my main, so much that you demand me to "get out" is cause you just want to harass me. What other reason could there be?

Also I have already proven posting as a main or an alt, people dont respond in a civil manner, nor do they respond with knowledge.

In fact, i'm about to make another post on this very thing. (Probably. I can only handle so much of this gibberish nonsense.)


Additionally, I dont seem to be the only one hidding information on "certain sites" that contain player data. Kettle calling the pot black much?

Look, you had a bad run. You probably ended up clearing it eventually. No need to come to the forums and complain.

I didnt "have a bad run" and that was it. It happens all the time. It needs to be addressed. They addressed tanks losing threat to DPS and healers by being in off tank stance, and they should address this.

The better solution is people should work together, but "savage tier people" have proven, time and time again, they absolutely refuse to do as such.

tank who was supposed to use their invuln skill on an incoming tankbuster, but didn't use it! But he died within an auto-attack!.

Speaking on this very topic.

Also most all 1shot tank busters can be handled another way instead of forcing the tank to invuln. That’s just the “popular” method because then healers won’t have to do anything besides the WHM pressing 1 button that is a oGCD.

Which further stresses the point, that healers extensively rely on the party to reduce their functions beyond just was mentioned in the original post.

In your "response" to my statement, you only solidified what I was implying even more.

Healers expect tanks to use risky tactics, to time their invuln actions to avoid having to heal more than 1 tank. As again, most tank busters are designed to be shared. This is the less risky option. People choose to force tanks to time their invulns so the healers can use things like benediction at specified intervals, leaving these very powerful actions unusable in the event something is going poorly.

Note: I am not against this method, as it actually makes the game more engaging. What I am against, is a healer letting a tank die, simply because they refuse to heal at all whatsoever.

[Deceptus]

so you must obviously not know what you're talking about either, since you couldnt deduce what I was trying to say. I shouldnt have to spell everything out perfectly flawlessly and not expect to get trolled for it. I would like to assume people understand whats being conveyed. But no, the forums are people like you, quick to insult, slow to discuss. Which is directly counterproductive, and why the NA forums are mostly ignored.

People don't "know what you mean", they know what you say.

No I know nothing about you. I dont stalk other people on the forums.....

Yet you have no issue cyber stalking some random WHM :

I literally just checked a healers history, and they rank "the highest among damage for healing" so even in their mind they are a great healer.

Which is the exact reason I had no qualms about looking at your character. Have you ever heard the phrase "When you're digging yourself a hole, just stop?" That's you right now. You're digging yourself a hole. You clearly have just one thing you'll accept and that healers have somehow wronged you. At this point you're just going to be another person on my ignore list.