Dark knight, the past, the present and the future of the job.

[DRKoftheAzure]

PLD has its second aoe combo hit at 50. Look I agree 100% with your sentiments, especially the early game for tanking, is very watered down, and worst yet DRK has gone through this twice back to back, as SB Drk didnt really get up to date till the last 10 levels also, and its terrible and feels bad absolutely. There is a semi active topic on this very thing about skill progression being atrocious as we speak, but in terms of DRK design, I'm just throwing out examples of things that seem to be falling on deaf ears with the way the job itself is currently designed, yet exist for other jobs.

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...n-is-atrocious


This thread yes?


I do agree that DRK shouldn't be singled out in these types of discussion, but remember that some people are going to compare one class to another and the most we can do is compare notes with each other.


But if the thread specifically singles out ANY ONE CLASS/JOB, there will be comparisons to other classes/jobs that what the class/job that got singled out that people are talking about(ESPECIALLY IF IT'S IN THE SAME ROLE), and how those classes/jobs do it better.

[Lyth]

I don't think there's any problem with Living Shadow, aside from the massive delay between summoning and activation. I mean, give Living Shadow the defensive value of Niuzao, Black Ox and DRK is basically a slower paced Brewmaster (especially with Celestial Brew feeling exactly like TBN).

I also think that combos are overrated, and people only harp on them because that's the only thing that players in this game know. I would much rather see DRK get a system of procs that forces you to dynamically adjust your resource use on the fly, rather than a paint-by-numbers fixed rotation. I also just want DRK to play faster at baseline, just like Blood Weapon used to be. This game feels like molasses coming off Warcraft, and it would be nice to have at least one tank on a super fast GCD at baseline. I found myself checking my watch between GCDs. Seriously.

[Jirah]

Disregarding all potency problems (since as a community we really need to get over numbers and focus on the fights at hand unless your world first, no job is that redundant and even then world firsts don’t use meta comps) and focusing on the function of the job as one should instead of saying “lawl it’s underpowered”

My issues with DRK so far is for starters the AOE that is supposed to replicate Souleater being far from reach until 72. Yea we have Flood but it’s a resource skill and spamming Unleash compared to the other 3 tanks with at least 1 non-resource Aoe skill is showing.

Inner Rel..I mean Delirium is kind of a bland skill it’s literally word for word Inner Release Same CD, Same effect (except Berserk extends Storms Eye, and doesn’t give crits in exchange for MP restoration) except Fell Cleave feels miles better to use being Satisfying to spam. DRK doesn’t need 10s spammer it needs its own thing it’s own identity, missed opportunity to have the MP restoration correlate with the Shadow skills somehow besides just MP gains. But idk this is a mild gripe I just hate when jobs have the same shtick also spamming weaponskills is NOT fun or intuitive. Imagine a DPS spamming a single skill?

Darkside, what’s the point? This feels like the most out of bounds Gauge skill ever. Could easily be a trait or a buff not a whole as gauge and unless your really thick and ignore your shadow skills this gauge is inconsequential mostly. Does darkside do anything else besides potency increase to the shadow skills?

Salted Earth is fine concept wise. It’s similar to Bow shock in some way (ignoring the rift between potency and CD and initial damage) and Abyssal Drain has the same initial damage as Bow shock and CD but with restoration attributes. So it’s like a fragmented albeit weaker version of Bow Shock take that what you will.

Living shadow, let’s call this for what it is, Scourge. I am so sick of SE putting those flashy pretty animation skills that are just a thinly veiled DoTs. The same thing as MCH turret problems and all without the stupid Battery timer. This is literally Scourge as MCH has Queen formally known as Lead Shot. SMN with all its issues with Bahamut had a range of control with Ruin/Wymwave weaving and Enkindle. And I see a missed opportunity to do something not identical but with any degree of control.

DRK isn’t bad by any means no FF14 job is bad it’s just sorrily lacking in some departments and some of its mechs are questionable not versed enough to suggest anything but I see topics like these and feel no need to

[ADVSS]

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...n-is-atrocious


This thread yes?

Thats the thread, and this is the one with DRK standing out as per the title. Nothing wrong with the comparison, my point was that myself and many others agree when you mention the progression sucks, and that DRK has it worse than other tanks, but its still bad for almost all the jobs because how they treat 50 to 80 now. Synced, theres still extremes and coil at 50 etc, so if this keeps up and they just spread stats out over 90 levels next, time, what are we going to see? only rampart until 60? Youre absolutely right

I don't think there's any problem with Living Shadow, aside from the massive delay between summoning and activation.

I also think that combos are overrated, and people only harp on them because that's the only thing that players in this game know. I would much rather see DRK get a system of procs that forces you to dynamically adjust your resource use on the fly, rather than a paint-by-numbers fixed rotation. I also just want DRK to play faster at baseline, just like Blood Weapon used to be. This game feels like molasses coming off Warcraft, and it would be nice to have at least one tank on a super fast GCD at baseline. I found myself checking my watch between GCDs. Seriously.

The living shadow timer is totally broken, for something thats supposed to work for burst damage, absolutely agree. For abilities, or spells, id agree, for swordplay though personally Sword Techniques sort of feel like a Samurai thing personally. I feel like the old Dark Arts system gave us much more agency to what you are talking about in the last part. And yukes, watching the watch while pushing 123

[Leiron]

I don't think there's any problem with Living Shadow, aside from the massive delay between summoning and activation. I mean, give Living Shadow the defensive value of Niuzao, Black Ox and DRK is basically a slower paced Brewmaster (especially with Celestial Brew feeling exactly like TBN).

I also think that combos are overrated, and people only harp on them because that's the only thing that players in this game know. I would much rather see DRK get a system of procs that forces you to dynamically adjust your resource use on the fly, rather than a paint-by-numbers fixed rotation. I also just want DRK to play faster at baseline, just like Blood Weapon used to be. This game feels like molasses coming off Warcraft, and it would be nice to have at least one tank on a super fast GCD at baseline. I found myself checking my watch between GCDs. Seriously.

I would love this, its what BLM utilized with the fire rotation to get firestarter procs.

[shao32]

Living shadow per se is not a bad skill and for me his problems are the same as other skills/mechanics the job suffer, for example one of the main problems I have with living shadow is like everything DRK have it's just simplified version of a mechanic present on another job, the skill is not unique neither offer any gameplay engagement value since it's just an automaton queen that can't be controlled at all, for that just re-add scoruge being more weaker and have half recast or something, the whole living shadow design it's just a waste for being a lvl 80 skill that have such structure just to being a scourge with a absurd recast timer.

[Rymi64]

Living shadow per se is not a bad skill and for me his problems are the same as other skills/mechanics the job suffer, for example one of the main problems I have with living shadow is like everything DRK have it's just simplified version of a mechanic present on another job, the skill is not unique neither offer any gameplay engagement value since it's just an automaton queen that can't be controlled at all, for that just re-add scoruge being more weaker and have half recast or something, the whole living shadow design it's just a waste for being a lvl 80 skill that have such structure just to being a scourge with a absurd recast timer.

I actually like these new ways to do dots honestly. Much more interesting to see another being thats just there to be a damage over time rather than do animation now its on the boss's debuff bar. Not like the queen can be controlled either, most control you get of it is setting it off manually. Also wouldnt adding back scourge but making it weaker and lower cooldown just make it essentially just be a copy of gunbreakers dot?

Honestly they could just make it so you can keep LS on the field longer by doing some combo or action or something or decrease the CD of LS. They could also consolidate our combo into one button like pvp and give us more actions that way so we get more attacks (or mitigation) while dealing with the button bloat slightly they they are set on drk having one main combo. They could even add scourge back and make it upgrade to LS at 80.

[ItMe]

I actually like these new ways to do dots honestly. Much more interesting to see another being thats just there to be a damage over time rather than do animation now its on the boss's debuff bar.

I definitely agree.
I also think it's more engaging to have dots you can't keep up 100% of the time.
It's more fun for me to plan Fray around when the boss becomes invulnerable, than it is to push the dot button every X seconds to refresh it.

[Jirah]

I actually like these new ways to do dots honestly. Much more interesting to see another being thats just there to be a damage over time rather than do animation now its on the boss's debuff bar. Not like the queen can be controlled either, most control you get of it is setting it off manually. Also wouldnt adding back scourge but making it weaker and lower cooldown just make it essentially just be a copy of gunbreakers dot?

Honestly they could just make it so you can keep LS on the field longer by doing some combo or action or something or decrease the CD of LS. They could also consolidate our combo into one button like pvp and give us more actions that way so we get more attacks (or mitigation) while dealing with the button bloat slightly they they are set on drk having one main combo. They could even add scourge back and make it upgrade to LS at 80.

bothers me is if u ignore the "animations" its literally as substantial as a dot and FF14 have a history of deleting old move to reintroduce them as new (Scrourge= Living Shadow, Lead Shot= Queen, Internal Release= Riddle of fire, Enlightenment = Howling fists, Stardiver = Ring of thorns, Aero III = Misery ect with some being lesser)

[Rymi64]

bothers me is if u ignore the "animations" its literally as substantial as a dot and FF14 have a history of deleting old move to reintroduce them as new (Scrourge= Living Shadow, Lead Shot= Queen, Internal Release= Riddle of fire, Enlightenment = Howling fists, Stardiver = Ring of thorns, Aero III = Misery ect with some being lesser)

Internal release and riddle of fire both co-existed in sb if anything they just combined the effect of Internal into riddle of fire, Enlightenment and howling fist cant really be compared since howling was supposed to be used off CD that was also a line aoe while enlightenment is your aoe spender for chakra, star diver and ring of thorns cant be compared just because they are both circle aoes nor can misery and aero III. The queen isn't really a replacement for lead shot since it's a upgrade for mch other dot its turret.

If anything this new way of dots could be a good way to bring back those old animations we lost from expansion to expansion. They already kind of do it with bozja and eureka so might as well do it here as well. If you're gonna make a dot might as well make it flashy and more interesting. All about the flair really