The POTD 180 Boss and DRK

[ArchonGhoul]

Well, after reading this comment related to spin against Ally, I decided to share my thoughts. I find it very unfair and misleading to assign the spin strat to Allythia Nicole in a way that she only clears DD's because of it AND to handle it as it was an exploit. As it was mentioned already, it is a technique that takes a lot of skill to master and you will NEVER want to use it 100% of the time and/or to fight every single mob with it, so it is a technique that you can decide to learn (or not), and it should be used very carefuly, since it is a high risk/high gain strat.

And even without spinning, she already proved multiple times that she can do amazing performances. I contributed to the theorycrafting for her resolution strat to kill behemoth on DRK without spin, and as already posted previously, she nailed it, adding it as an alternative to Fania's strat. She also cleared 190 boss on NIN without spin using only 1 strength and 1 steel, while all these "no spin legends" save at least 2 pomanders of each to kill it.

Not to mention that she has world first on hoh and world 4th on potd, both on RDM, which is a job that doesnt allow spinning (at least dpsing while spinning).

My point is, she is always trying to improve and to find different ways of doing solo DD's, meanwhile I ask myself: where were you?

[Veronix]

Everything that I would have said has already been said by some of the others players already, so I'll make my response short and concise. @MarciX Next time, do some research before you come onto the official forums and talk noise about other players and spread misinformation. There is no honor in slandering other people on the official forums while not being informed yourself.

[Commander_Justitia]

AND to handle it as it was an exploit

It is definitely an exploit if a mob can't get off a single attack, no matter how skilled a player is. Yes it is hard to do, yes you need more skills to clear potd than just spin every mob and you can't even spin on every class as pointed out by you. But to trivialize it and say "It is okay to do because this player is good" is wrong. Ask a developer if he intended that a mimic can be spinned for 2min in order to not get malice on your character, what do you think he would say. Only because they can't fix it properly because of whatever reasons they have to not fix it, doesn't make it right.
With that said I probably would encourage other players to do the same as SE clearly doesn't care about it, but an exploit is still an exploit.

[MarciX]

In response to the slanderous comment: I'm offended you didn't include me in your exploit user list. Allythia Nicole has demonstrated countless times that she is able to clear with or without spin. You have absolutely no idea the amount of skill it takes to spin 180, and I'm willing to bet that given the chance to spin 180 a hundred times on brd or dnc you wouldn't be able to clear even once. Also, have you ever LoS'd a caster mob, you know, to prevent it from attacking you? Hmm, sounds a bit like that spinning thing you like to call an exploit. But LoSing a caster mob to prevent it from attacking you is TOTALLY different right? There's only one meme here and it's you bud.

Okay, OKAY! LMFAO! HAHA!
You cant differentiate between LoS'd a caster mob and to spin the WHOLE mob? Dude, just put me on blacklist, you cant use more than 2 brain cells but wanna talk about anything with me for the deep dungeons? GG.. or not.
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@All others with swarm intelligence:
Absolut no one said: Ally = Meme
It has been said: The whole ranking system becomes just a meme because PEOPLE LIKE (bla bla)!!! use exploits IN PUBLIC with classes which cant beat (or extremly hard) the 180 BOSS without spinning atm.
This means NOT if some people use spin, that they are memes, it means they inspirate other people to copy those exploits for their own gain.
Can some people combine? This means the whole ranking system lose enormous of credibility.

I play this dungeons since years and so many people rised from zero to hero without many wipes in a few of days/weeks.

For all who cant accept that those exploits (SPIN) destroyed the whole ranking system: I cant help you anymore LMFAO.

@Commander_Justitia posted the thing, thank you very much dude.

[Vyrerus]

its not like the game always stayed the same in the past years, it always got easier to do
you have more dmg now, some classes play way differently like smn and mch, more health/better food, more cc opportunity on mimics, sustain potions, better normal potions, better speed on range phys., was directhit a thing in heavensward already?; gnb selfsustain and spinn strats too

Then there was the niddhogg eye 95% mitigation bug glitch that some abused to clear it, earlier this year.

In the past people who got really high would probably have cleared it in todays conditions.

No Direct Hit in HW. Only came out in Stormblood. Increased potencies and Direct Hit make POTD easier than it was, but it's still no picnic when you get deep, regardless. That and, you still can't Direct Hit without Direct Hit food, since substats are set to base inside. Direct Hit functions in the same slot as accuracy, that is to say, at base Direct Hit, you have no Direct Hit %, unlike Crit.

I wish I had more time to do solo runs, would like to get a 200 solo clear out of the way sometime in my life. Plenty of duo and party clears, but solo runs just take so much time.

How is it any different?

Well, spinning is different from LoS, because LoS can happen to players too. It's an explicit function of the game's programming. Spinning monsters to prevent their attack from occurring is 100% unintentional, 100% exploit. Monsters in Deep Dungeons are taken from the rest of the game, where positioning monsters and keeping them still is the optimal way to play. The necessary thing for spinning is so out of the ordinary that it's likely they didn't know it was an issue until relatively recently. I assume it's been possible since 2.0's inception, we've just had very little reason to use it.

In regards with using it in a Deep Dungeon Solo run. Well, I've got no objection to others using it. Why throw away 10 hours of your effort if you don't have to? That said, it is still an exploit. It's just not a very major one. I wouldn't expect SE to ban for it. I would expect them to fix the issue. They did fix a somewhat similar issue a few years back where they didn't want casting mobs to be interrupted by tanks running behind them anymore.

Though this does make me wonder, since spinning works on pretty much everything, I wonder if it's possible to use it to cheese raid bosses too lol. If that were to happen, they'd definitely fix whatever thing causes monsters to be unable to attack while spinning.

[Commander_Justitia]

You're making it so the mob isn't able to attack you at all. Is that not the same thing spinning accomplishes? I wonder why people like you say it's different though. Probably because you couldn't spin even if you wanted to.

Mobs are generally faster than your player character, this means they catch up at some point unless you use sprint or they have a slow effect. But as mobs have high HP pools and take almost a minute to kill or longer in some cases, it is only natural they will catch up and hit you. Spinning prevents that entirely, so that is why it is different. I feel like you would know that if you tried it yourself once. Your post was directed at marci but I tried potd some years ago, have 2 savegames since months at mid 1xx levels, not everyone has the time or motivation to do a 10h run every other day. Doesn't mean people can't spin, doesnt mean they can; only because they havent cleared it yet.

You know what's funny, people like you that are anti spin are literally doing DD and just waiting to be GIVEN the rng that you need to clear. What do you do when you're on a high floor with no steel? "Ah man the game didn't give me what I needed to clear, guess I'm just gonna die and start from 1 again and hope this time I get the pomanders I need." Where's the skill in that?

There is no skill in RNG making you lose, but that is how potd was built, that is its nature. If the devs wanted it to be different, they would have listened to the community by now and changed how people are so reliant on steel mitigation, but they didn't. If you get bad rng you lose no matter how skilled you are, no matter how good you can spin, that is the joke in this mode. To argue it is intended to exploit in order to clear on some classes... you can basically say it is okay to use a cheat engine and teleport and speedrun around with no GCD clipping, because I cant beat it any other way, because I got bad rng.
To have a certain amount of luck is essential in clearing it, or are you debating that too?

You've been doing this for how long now, oh right, you wrote you've been doing this for YEARS and you've only managed to clear palace with the easiest jobs.
You can't get a single tank past 180 and you've only recently cleared with mch, the job which made getting necromancer a meme itself by the way. You should probably stop replying because everything you write only serves to further embarrass yourself.

I mean, if it is so easy, why not show me the hundreds of people who cleared on mch now, it is still extremely niche, you need a lot of knowledge. Yes it got easier, but to talk down the 200 clear because of that is a bit harsh...I almost feel like you are trying to troll by saying "you embarass yourself by having a potd 200 solo clear" lmao.

The fact is SE hasn't banned anybody for using spin in DD

Yeah, if you would know a bit more about what SE can ban or used to ban in the past, you can have a guess what their tools are. And the reality is, there aren't many outside of battle and chatlogs. Like I said earlier, they would probably need to change how to prevent spinning by changing how all the mobs in the world work (most raidbosses, primal bosses seem to have a set timeline since heavensward to prevent it because of the world first racing etc.) and I don't think they are willing to make those changes and don't see it as a big enough problem. But again, only because SE is unable to fix an exploit rn, doesn't mean it is not an exploit. They didn't ban anyone for cleaing t9 savage with spin strat either, aggro ping pong between large distances can happen too resulting in no hits done, its difficult to prove by logs. And you cant make the process automated to tell if its spinning or not, just by logs, human personal is expensive though....

At the end of the day nobody cares about anything you think or say

Y so mad, did somebody steal your breakfast. Why write a whole paragraph if you don't care ?

[Commander_Justitia]

I wish I had more time to do solo runs, would like to get a 200 solo clear out of the way sometime in my life. Plenty of duo and party clears, but solo runs just take so much time.

In regards with using it in a Deep Dungeon Solo run. Well, I've got no objection to others using it. Why throw away 10 hours of your effort if you don't have to? That said, it is still an exploit.

They did fix a somewhat similar issue a few years back where they didn't want casting mobs to be interrupted by tanks running behind them anymore.

Though this does make me wonder, since spinning works on pretty much everything, I wonder if it's possible to use it to cheese raid bosses too lol.

Ye same, to get in the mindset for it and do lots at once really helps I think. Over longer time you tend to forget some things already again like aggrotypes of mobs.
I would also argue, that people can use it, but I would never defend it and say it is intended to use.

Funnily enough, most ARR dungeons still have that "bug" you speak of, if you are in haukke manor or some very old lvl 50 dungeons like amdapor etc. you can still go behind their backs and they interrupt their casting. They still called it "void"- fire/thunder too and they seem to behave like that still.

And the last part, they changed a lot of raidbosses so they are either not moveable at all like Neo-Exdeath, Manipulator, Titan or are multiple bosses at once for Omega etc. but they also behave differently nowadays, they work on set timelines even if they don't manage to get the autoattack off they will start the cast they are intended to. So they fixed the issue partially like that for the important fights. Which makes you think they are very aware of the issue, just ignore it for the ten players who play potd.

[Zairin]

In response to spinning making leaderboards dead: Aside from Bard/Dancer (who can't get a 200 clear unless they spin), the leaderboard is very accessible to people who don't spin. As a non spinner myself, I do my best to get the highest score possible when I do all of my attempts. The ways to find scoring criteria are online and pretty easy to find if you know where to look. Case in point, I hold the top world DRK HoH score right now (1.85 mil), and none of it was accomplished via spinning. I also have a gunbreaker palace clear just 1k short of top data center. My other jobs that I have attempted but not cleared, you may also notice score way higher than other people who are on similar floors as myself. If you really want to compete on the leaderboards, learn the scoring criteria, and apply it to your runs. You may notice you can score higher than you think you do, despite feeling like you're at a disadvantage (Which you're not).

[Commander_Justitia]

I know it's hard for you to do absolutely anything at all for yourself. Open up the leader boards and look. Mch has gotten 100+ clears with the majority of them being the last few months. It's pretty easy to clear with mch barring really bad rng, same with rdm except the threshold for managable rng is lower. I also don't know why you're commenting like you can add any discussion about how difficult it is to clear with what job like you know this content

Ye for NA/EU datacenters the clears for mch are all single digits. I spoke of several hundreds. It is still niche content and not as casual as you make it sound like.
Anyway I talked primarily about spinning which you preferred to ignore. I don't value a 200 clear with more points over another 200 clear with less points, in the past only how far you could go was really interesting to me and we had hard limits for years for certain classes. I assume you didn't even try when potd got released. Going for high points because you do something very time consuming and risky additionally isn't really interesting imo either. I also don't know why you're commenting like you know me and I don't even know you either and don't want to know. You sound like a person who takes this content way too serious, who needs to justify that only your way is the right one, and everyone else is wrong and not worthy your presence. Have fun worshipping your spinning heroes

[MarciX]

clown fiesta

'Spinning is 100% skill based' - LMFAO!
It seems you would defend ACT triggers for raids too or?

Sweet, really sweet. I just dont have the time and the potsherds (potd) atm to run more often. no worry.
I have absolut no idea what do you think who you are. HAHA!
But whatever. Lets finish this circus, everything is said.

scoring criteria

I know i know, but very often the serenity pomander is not my best friend and i dont wanna risk too much, and i can accept if people did better high score criterias.
If people do high score+ first clear at the same time, its okay too, if they want?!