Thread: 5.3 AST Changes

Originally Posted by IllyaPrisma

AST is not in the lead “by a mile”.

AST pushes only slightly ahead of WHM in terms of total DPS contribution. Also, WHM intentionally has very few weaving slots, as it has the least amount of oGCDs. Movement is designed to hurt WHM, and movement is currently the only weakness the job faces. That should remain, otherwise WHM would be even more ridiculous than it already is.

I will agree that SCH should have received priority with damage and pet changes, but the MP issues on AST took precedence to make the job a little more appealing.

I don't agree at all. With that same logic, why has BLM gotten much better at mobility and weaving over the years while WHM has not? Intentional or not, that's a really strict design choice and a frustrating one at that. If their GCD is the focus of their built, then BLM should also be forced to clip as well because it's powerful with few oGCDs right? That logic doesn't make sense with WHM and even SCH (even they have Ruin II but that's still a loss).

Tbh all healers should have gotten the reduced cast time treatment. It would make weaving less annoying than it is and would prevent less greeding as well. SCH and WHM like someone said is hard now because someone has to bite the bullet and take a loss because of their limited weaving window.

Maybe you and some others find it interesting to work around that, but I find it archaic and bad. The entire role faces a myriad of issues and problems and they choose to keep the clipping horror that is healers?

It kind of shows they don't look healers as much as they say they do. The only job they did it for is AST and that's because of the cards. And even after its iteration in HW, they only decided to fix it late SB.

Even if WHM/SCH has a reduced cast time like AST's, it will only beat it marginally or even the field out. AST is still very valuable because of its kit and buffs.

Looking at the changes lined up, it'll be interesting to see what the Sleeve Draw changes are, this may be a positive for controller users, although I've previously stated "but it is not an issue for me", but I wasn't really playing optimally and since improving my AST play, I have gradually found, yeah, it's a pain on controller. I will happily take that comment back.

With MP changes, I'm not sure what to feel, I like that I had to adapt based on the fact it is easier to run out of MP because MP feels like a resource I have to manage. So I kinda would prefer it to stay that way. It is another dimension to playing a healer and with how they all feel too efficient for most content, I liked having something that's not-so-efficient to compensate for.

But I expect for Savage and Ultimate, MP could be s hindrance for AST players? Not sure how much of a difference it makes there as not taken mine there.

Originally Posted by Saefinn

But I expect for Savage and Ultimate, MP could be s hindrance for AST players? Not sure how much of a difference it makes there as not taken mine there.

its pretty bad. if a fight drags on, or if you rez someone or god forbid you die for whatever reason youre pretty much screwed and will run out of mp at some point. the amount of super ethers ive burnt this expansion because lightspeed and lucid on cooldown wasnt enough is ridiculous.

Originally Posted by Side-Eye

Exactly correct. As usual, Squeenix is fixing a busted leaking pipe by installing new ceiling fans.

I about spit my coffee out...freaking hilarious.

Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

You're playing WhM wrong then, most likely spamming Cure II too much and overhealing. Regen should cover a lot and Cure II when your tank drops low. You should only be running out of MP if the tank is made of paper and you need to spam heal, in which case Cure I was never going to keep up. At 56 you have Solace, Asylum, Assize which are all 0 mp or a gain, so Cure I shouldn't even be looked at.

I don't play WHM anymore...it's kind of boring to me, but if I pick it up again i'll look into throttling my Cure II when the tank is at 50% HP. Thanks

Originally Posted by QooEr

its pretty bad. if a fight drags on, or if you rez someone or god forbid you die for whatever reason youre pretty much screwed and will run out of mp at some point. the amount of super ethers ive burnt this expansion because lightspeed and lucid on cooldown wasnt enough is ridiculous.

I am guessing given the part you quoted this is what it is like for Savage and Ultimate.

I am basing my experience on taking AST to Ruby Weapon EX and Memoria Misera as the highest content I've taken AST into.

At first I had MP problems, partially because I fell into the trap of thinking "my cohealer is WHM, let's go Noct", but once I adapted, I found with all the raise I was able to manage my MP.

And I liked that. But then I am not sure how they can bring the experience of MP management to more content without making tougher content a nightmare with MP.

This I guess is another supporting point for my idea to have a Raid specific build for balance, like we have with PvP. So job balance outside of raid can be made more interesting, whilst in raid more balanced.

Originally Posted by KDSilver

I'm gently asking (just in case you might think it could be an aggresive question). Did you truly experienced yourself AST and its mana managment on different content?

Currently, AST mana is not just a weakness, it's a chore, an issue and it needeed some help.

Honestly, I don't mind admitting I haven't experienced AST enough to judge properly. I'm leveling one at the moment, even if I don't main it at endgame just to get a better insight on how my co-healers function. So no, I'm not disagreeing on that at all. Any discussion is a good chance to learn more so it's all an interesting read.

Don't get me wrong, I like AST's. I don't want nerfs and I'm all for them getting an MP bump and I really hope they get that gameplay fix that many seem to want. Similar to WhM's mobility and ScH's handicap ...I mean pet, there's a difference between weakness and crippling and if that's the case then give them more mana.
But it does still surprise me that that's their main focus, when AST is still the top endgame healer and the other 2 are riddled with issues and not even acknowledged. And that's not even getting started on the overall healer gameplay we've been discussing for months because I assume that's a 6.0 job.

Originally Posted by elioaiko

Tbh all healers should have gotten the reduced cast time treatment. It would make weaving less annoying than it is and would prevent less greeding as well. SCH and WHM like someone said is hard now because someone has to bite the bullet and take a loss because of their limited weaving window.

If WHM had the same mobility and weaving capability as AST, the balance of healers would be completely thrown out the window. There would need to be potency reductions across the board for WHM to even consider it.
You also can’t compare WHM and BLM, as Shadowbringers displayed clear DPS favoritism from a development perspective.

Take a step back and think about balance rationally, and not just what you personally think is best. It’s the community spouting ludicrous ideas like yours that got healers into the homogenized mess we are currently in.

Originally Posted by IllyaPrisma

If WHM had the same mobility and weaving capability as AST, the balance of healers would be completely thrown out the window. There would need to be potency reductions across the board for WHM to even consider it.
You also can’t compare WHM and BLM, as Shadowbringers displayed clear DPS favoritism from a development perspective.

Take a step back and think about balance rationally, and not just what you personally think is best. It’s the community spouting ludicrous ideas like yours that got healers into the homogenized mess we are currently in.

I've played ClipMage in dungeons. It flows like mud compared to classes that are actually designed with the weave space they need to use their abilities.

Maybe we could find a weakness for WHM that isn't "doesn't play smoothly".

And relative immobility is a pretty nasty weakness; it's why they added a bunch of movement tools to BLM. Almost every single mechanic at all levels of difficulty is passed through moving. It'd be nice if encounters occasionally traded around whose weaknesses they hammer at, but an immobile class will -always- have their weakness leaned on by basically every encounter in this game.

Originally Posted by IllyaPrisma

If WHM had the same mobility and weaving capability as AST, the balance of healers would be completely thrown out the window. There would need to be potency reductions across the board for WHM to even consider it.
You also can’t compare WHM and BLM, as Shadowbringers displayed clear DPS favoritism from a development perspective.

Take a step back and think about balance rationally, and not just what you personally think is best. It’s the community spouting ludicrous ideas like yours that got healers into the homogenized mess we are currently in.

While I understand the power balance would be different if both WHM and SCH got better weaving space, the increased power balance wouldn't be that bad. The only potential problem I could see is that SCH/AST would be strong but that's nothing new really. WHM wouldn't even need to be nerfed because they lack the oGCDs that SCH and AST do.

AST would still be king regardless because of their healing and while SCH would be a monster at healing again, that comes to show you how bad their SCH changes were. Taking away their DoTs to weave and the ability to cast fairy skills while casting severely hurt SCH's ability to heal optimally.

Like the other person said, immobility is a terrible design choice. If getting nerfed to be underneath AST/SCH's dominance for better movement and weaving, I would take that in a heartbeat. I'd rather have weaker DPS than to clip a million times and still lose DPS.

Also wanting better weaving space for two jobs that sorely need them does not correlate with why they homogenized the healers. They wanted an a cleaner focus on healing and they forced all the healers to have the same DPS kit and wanted more people to play the role.

The irony is that if they wanted people to play the role than they should have made them less clunkier. WHM clips and is a more a turret than BLM at this point. SCH's fairy ghosts and we had to beg for Energy Drain back. And on top of that, AST's cards got changed and Sleeve Draw is problematic.

I would say wanting less clipping would be the last reason people call healers dull.