Leveling Kit tweaks for Tank Jobs

[DRKoftheAzure]

I think he was referring more to the fact that the extra 600mp would make edge and flood too strong for ARR content, due to the fact that not only is stalwart 160pot, but the extra edges and floods will add up along with the darkside 10% bonus.

If those people who want to keep spamming Souleater combo in AoE just to get MP back for Flood of Darkness then go for it, I'm not going to stop the people who want to do it. I'm just going to tell them that there is a better QoL option they could go for if they really want it...

[bundythenoob]

If those people who want to keep spamming Souleater combo in AoE just to get MP back for Flood of Darkness then go for it, I'm not going to stop the people who want to do it. I'm just going to tell them that there is a better QoL option they could go for if they really want it...

this is the reason why i feel that stalwart really needs to be moved to lv 40. by having it moved early, it can let people build more resource and do more damage, while making the gameplay loop of the job feel much better than just spamming unleash with the occasional flood till u can use quietus every now and then.

in ARR content, DRK is so starved of mana because the devs don't want Edge/Flood to be used more frequently that you end up having to single target while in AOE fights in order to flood, because unleash just doesn't cut it by itself. on top of that, the weaker AOE damage from not having stalwart makes DRK have to rely on souleater for HP even more until we get Abyss Drain (which should at least get an extra charge at lv 60 something sheesh)

in HW dungeons, the lack of stalwart makes the gameplay loop feel identical to ARR until you get abyssal drain, which is only usable once a minute anyway, and with Salted being so much weaker and coming twice as slow as it used to, it ends up getting very little use overall. the lack of Sole Survivor at lv 58 makes the job still feel slow at building, and at lv 60 CnS only restores 600 every minute.

STB dungeons don't get that much better until you get quietus, and even then its lack of inherit mana generation means that until delirium at 68, it just becomes a stronger unleash you can throw out every now and then.

If the devs really want to keep tank damage low, then they could just nerf the potencies on edge/flood to make up for the extra damage and resource that stalwart would bring. this would also end up changing DRKs power in HW and STB content, but it would end up being a healthy change that could allow the job to feel much more engaging and powerful

[DRKoftheAzure]

this is the reason why i feel that stalwart really needs to be moved to lv 40. by having it moved early, it can let people build more resource and do more damage, while making the gameplay loop of the job feel much better than just spamming unleash with the occasional flood till u can use quietus every now and then.

Agreed. (though if you have seen some of my more recent posts you will know why I think this QoL would not be enough to get former DRK players playing DRK again)

in ARR content, DRK is so starved of mana because the devs don't want Edge/Flood to be used more frequently that you end up having to single target while in AOE fights in order to flood, because unleash just doesn't cut it by itself. on top of that, the weaker AOE damage from not having stalwart makes DRK have to rely on souleater for HP even more until we get Abyss Drain (which should at least get an extra charge at lv 60 something sheesh)

Very starved for MP and HP recovery options.

in HW dungeons, the lack of stalwart makes the gameplay loop feel identical to ARR until you get abyssal drain, which is only usable once a minute anyway, and with Salted being so much weaker and coming twice as slow as it used to, it ends up getting very little use overall. the lack of Sole Survivor at lv 58 makes the job still feel slow at building, and at lv 60 CnS only restores 600 every minute.

Yeah... I never got why a 450 potency attack that restores 600 MP needs to be on a 1 minute cooldown... ESPECIALLY with how boring the overall gameplay loop is making it the longest minute ever... same with putting Salted Earth on a 90 recast timer(Salted Earth being ground targeting DoT justifying the long recast timer is a idiotic argument in the long term)

STB dungeons don't get that much better until you get quietus, and even then its lack of inherit mana generation means that until delirium at 68, it just becomes a stronger unleash you can throw out every now and then.

That was mostly because of the "Delirium Rework" which was already terrible at Shadowbringers launch but further proves that the person who did the DRK "rework" does not know what DRK mains want...

If the devs really want to keep tank damage low, then they could just nerf the potencies on edge/flood to make up for the extra damage and resource that stalwart would bring. this would also end up changing DRKs power in HW and STB content, but it would end up being a healthy change that could allow the job to feel much more engaging and powerful

This would make people just not do content at all and make people ask for class progression skip items to be set at current level cap instead of what's currently set to, while also make people leave because they don't want to spend anymore money than they want/have/need to just to enjoy the overall experience.

[bundythenoob]

snip

While i do definitely agree that DRK can use a lot more QOL changes, the objective of this thread was to present some ideas that could be implemented quickly using the existing kit as a base in order to give DRK some more QOL during the leveling process (ideally implemented during 5.3, but..) sadly though i doubt anything even close to this will be implemented just because tanks are balanced at lv 80 and square doesnt seem to think that the leveling process is as important as the lv 80, which I think is a huge mistake considering almost 90% of the games content is level synced.

I am interested to know if you have any other ideas that could be implemented though, so do post away if you want!

[DRKoftheAzure]

While i do definitely agree that DRK can use a lot more QOL changes, the objective of this thread was to present some ideas that could be implemented quickly using the existing kit as a base in order to give DRK some more QOL during the leveling process (ideally implemented during 5.3, but..) sadly though i doubt anything even close to this will be implemented just because tanks are balanced at lv 80 and square doesnt seem to think that the leveling process is as important as the lv 80, which I think is a huge mistake considering almost 90% of the games content is level synced.

I am interested to know if you have any other ideas that could be implemented though, so do post away if you want!

I agree with leveling being just as important as the level cap stuff.

As for "QoL Rework Ideas" I have a lot of ideas for the tanks. And I mean A LOT! So expect this next post to get edited because of character limit.


*Dark Knight:

Bringing back Heavensward PVP exclusive skills Carnal Chill as your target AoE combo starter(10% damage reduction maintenance debuff) at level 50(no class quest needed) with Salted Earth reworked into being the second stage of the target AoE combo(DoT maintenance and Abyssal Drain being the combo ender and it restores HP and MP and generates 20 Blood Gauge, and Tar Pit is the level 40 PBAoE second stage combo restores HP and MP and generates 10 Blood Gauge when you get the Blackblood trait and Stalwart Soul gets its potency buffed and restores HP as well as MP and generates 10 Blood Gauge to justify it being an PBAoE combo ender at level 72.


Blood Weapon needs it's haste buff back and have its MP and Blood Gauge affect all actions that inflict damage, and would need to cut Blood Gauge generation down to 5 increase it's duration to 30 seconds, and bring back Blood Price and have be the HP equivalent of Blood Weapon and they both share a recast timer and their recast timer is 25(this will make sense in the next line).


Scourge can come back as DoT second stage combo that generates and gives you a 50 Cure Potency Regen that generates 5 Blood Gauge per tick, with Delirium being reworked back into its weaponskill form, but not refreshes Darkside and Blood weapon/Price timers by 10 seconds to a maximum of 30, with a trait that buffs your AoE combo enders to do the same at level 78(Plunge would have 2 charges baseline).


Syphon Strike restores HP, MP, and generates 10 Blood Gauge, and Souleater does the same as Syphon Strike but stronger in HP recovery.


Spinning Slash and Power Slash can come back as the enmity generating combo but would need to generate 600 MP and 10 Blood Gauge each(for offtanking).


Darkside is it's own separate button again with a 25 second recast and last 30 seconds and you obtain Living Shadow at level 70(level job quest can give you the ability glamour Living Shadow pet thing) and is basically a tank pet with all of the DRK tools(including Provoke and Shirk) and basically mirrors all of your attacking actions(when the pet is Main tank it has Blood Price active, other wise Blood Weapon and Darkside are both active and infinite duration on the pet) and is susceptible to taking damage from other mechanics and Living Shadow remains active so long as you have Darkside time remaining or the pet dies.


(Dark Arts is a completely different beast that I have multiple ideas for but some of those ideas might need to be their separate thing skipping this for now and same goes for Carve and Spit, Bloodspiller, Quietus, Edge/Flood of Darkness/Shadow, and The Blackest Night).


Living Dead... Just make so that you hit that 100% HP restored point you get a buff indicating that you can enter 10 second invincible buff state once Walking Dead debuff wears off and if Living Dead falls off and you don't enter Walking Dead State just reset recast to 30 Seconds.


Dark Dance comes back but with 70-80% parry rate and upgrades into Dark Mind.


Sole Survivor come back in it's 4.3 version but also now increases the targets damage received by 5% minimum(maybe have a trait that upgrades it into a target AoE and increases the targets damage received to maybe 10-15%)


Dark Missionary gives a 25% HP Barrier to all party members in range and reduces magic damage received by 15%.



*Paladin:


Replace Rage of Halone/Royal Authority with Savage Blade(this will make sense in the next sentence)


Move Atonement and Sword Oath trait to level 50, at level 60 you get a Sword Oath Trait that a at 2 or less stacks Atonement becomes Rage of Halone, and at level 70 you get another Sword Oath trait that at 1 stack turns Rage of Halone into Royal Authority(all are unlocked by doing the level 50, 60, and 70 Paladin quests respectively)


Bring back Convalescence and make it a 400-600 Cure potency spell(Vercure for Paladins)


Divine Veil can be an oGCD AoE Convalescence that's a 300 cure potency regen with its current HP Barrier effect.


Cover either has it's gauge cost removed or has it's recast timer reduced drastically.


Shield Oath comes back and gets reworked into a level 60 trait that buffs all of Paladins healing abilities with shielding(or Heal Shields like Scholars and actually stacks with Scholar and Astrologian heal shields).


Shield Bash becomes a 20 Second oGCD and Shield Swipe makes a return but no longer requires the block proc and potency is 110.


Sheltron and Intervention has gauge cost cut to 20.



*Warrior:

Basically anything that boosts Warriors defenses by a certain % also boost it's HP by that %.


(Warriors combo structure, Infuriate mechanic, and Berserk/Inner Release need a more detailed rework)



*Gunbreaker:

Continuation needs to be available at level 1 and get a Continuation skill every time you gain a new GCD skill(yes I know this will require rehashing a lot of Gunbreakers animations and maybe add some new animations to throw into the mix but still)


Aurora gets a baseline 1200 cure potency with its current regen effect and has 2 charges.


Heart of Light still works the way it does baseline but gets additional effects based on if you have both Aurora and/or Brutal Shell buff active(if Aurora is active 1200 cure potency heals with regen of 200 cure potency HoT, Brutal Shell 300 cure potency with heal shield, both effects active are 1500 cure potency heal with heal shield and regen of 200 cure potency HoT).


Camouflage gets buffed with 30 evasion rate to justify 90 second recast timer.

[cactuarzzzz]

I think he was referring more to the fact that the extra 600mp would make edge and flood too strong for ARR content, due to the fact that not only is stalwart 160pot, but the extra edges and floods will add up along with the darkside 10% bonus.

My thought on that was just to nerf edge/flood, or to maybe reduce darkside to 5% until level 62 or something, but I do strongly feel that stalwart should be moved to lv 40, not because it's OP, but because having to wait until lv 72 for a tool that all other tanks get at lv 40 feels terribad, especially for a job that is being used as the poster boy for SHB advertisement.

Claiming that

"If you gave DRK Stalwart Soul at lv40, you'd need to remove or heavily reduce MP generation until a later point, otherwise the AOE dps of DRK at lv40-60 would be absolutely bonkers"

is overstatement.

The other tanks main like Reinhardt_Azureheim like to assume that without stalwart soul drk aoe power and capability to do big pull is already on par with the rest of the tanks even in ARR.

Let me tell you : I did a potency calculation and found out that even with stalwart soul's mp regen drk's aoe power can only out damage GNB' aoe power at the beginning of the dungeon because mp is full which is like 2 more floods at best. Then for the rest of the dungeon DRK is on par with GNB in term of AOE power. But there is more that other tank love too and try forget to make their argument go smooth if it possible like how at the start of normal 50 dungeon PLD is the tank who came up on top because they can go LEEEEEEEEROY!>Pull the whole room>Pop Hallow Ground + Flight or Fight and burst aoe all the trash mob meanwhile DRK have to go slowly because they can't count on LD, no instant self heal, no extra physical mitigation like other tanks untill lv 70.

I level up both DRK and PLD and clear savage with both. The tanking life of the two in this expansion is like a cliff and a pit.