Invulns: Problems and Solutions

[ForteNightshade]

I mean, Spilling Wave deals roughly 23000 damage per wave without mitigation, and each tank gets hit by these 12 times. When it was new that was like between 1/6th and 1/5th of your total HP per hit, and so it was enough to kill both tanks twice over with no healing/mitigation. Even with 50% mitigation you'd still take your maximum HP in damage, in i450~i460ish gear., if you could keep that mitigation running the entire time, which you can't. If they sped up the interval any further the healers wouldn't be able to keep up with healing all of the DPS/themselves for dealing with the actual smokers while also keeping the tanks alive, without holding more oGCDs than they do already for that.

I mean, sure, it's more than manageable, but I wouldn't call it comically low.

That's going to depend on ilvl. Looking at one of my own clears, it dealt roughly 15,000 with only Rampant. The Scholar put Aetherpact on and completely ignored me. In fact, they cancelled it or the tether ran out not even half way through. For a twelve hit move, I shouldn't be able to survive with that little amount of mitigation and healing even at i470. Although, I'll admit they were playing "how low can I go" given I dropped to 12k at one point. It says a lot about the mechanic when I sat on Vengeance and Thrill just so I could cheese Temporary Current. Even at i450, I'd only need to add Raw, Equilibrium or slightly more healing though I wouldn't be eating things for damage at that point anyway.

But this highlights why I've been routinely critical of E3S. Vengeance and Thrill existed so I could cheese his dash or feed Shake It Off. Otherwise, Raw/Nascent and Holmgang were all I needed for every single mechanic he does. At least in terms of self mitigation. For the third fight in a Savage tier, I'd describe that as comically low.

[Absurdity]

Now, a fight like E6S, on the other hand, yeah that is very much so lacking in damage both in terms of autos and tank busters, but w/e, you can't have it all especially for a lower tier fight.

E6S is just a crap fight in general, invulns are the least of it's problems.

[Vyrerus]

That's going to depend on ilvl. Looking at one of my own clears, it dealt roughly 15,000 with only Rampant. The Scholar put Aetherpact on and completely ignored me. In fact, they cancelled it or the tether ran out not even half way through. For a twelve hit move, I shouldn't be able to survive with that little amount of mitigation and healing even at i470. Although, I'll admit they were playing "how low can I go" given I dropped to 12k at one point. It says a lot about the mechanic when I sat on Vengeance and Thrill just so I could cheese Temporary Current. Even at i450, I'd only need to add Raw, Equilibrium or slightly more healing though I wouldn't be eating things for damage at that point anyway.

But this highlights why I've been routinely critical of E3S. Vengeance and Thrill existed so I could cheese his dash or feed Shake It Off. Otherwise, Raw/Nascent and Holmgang were all I needed for every single mechanic he does. At least in terms of self mitigation. For the third fight in a Savage tier, I'd describe that as comically low.

With a couple of exceptions, no Savage fight has ever had punishing tank mechanics once you've reach iLvl that's considered BiS iLvl/maximum defense for that tier. At i450 you'd have nearly 20k less HP, less everything, and your healer would have been healing you for less. You would need more mitigation for at least half of the hits, or at least more healing. Comically low would be not having to pop anything at all for it.

[ForteNightshade]

With a couple of exceptions, no Savage fight has ever had punishing tank mechanics once you've reach iLvl that's considered BiS iLvl/maximum defense for that tier. At i450 you'd have nearly 20k less HP, less everything, and your healer would have been healing you for less. You would need more mitigation for at least half of the hits, or at least more healing. Comically low would be not having to pop anything at all for it.

No, you don't. I've tanked it at lower ilvls. That's the whole point. You never needed much of anything to survive because it simply isn't hitting hard enough. The healer was at a much lower ilvl than me yet still only used Aetherpact. Like I said, adding Raw/Nascent or Equilibrium is all I need to do there. Although, given I have every cooldown by that point. In prog, I'll overmitigate and it basically doesn't exist. In fact, I've healed myself through it because Warrior. For the third fight of the tier, it shouldn't be that easy, especially when it's essentially the last "big" attack he does.

[DaulBan]

The only problem with invulns is the fact that LD is so bad it could be on a one minute CD and still be garbage

[Vyrerus]

No, you don't. I've tanked it at lower ilvls. That's the whole point. You never needed much of anything to survive because it simply isn't hitting hard enough. The healer was at a much lower ilvl than me yet still only used Aetherpact. Like I said, adding Raw/Nascent or Equilibrium is all I need to do there. Although, given I have every cooldown by that point. In prog, I'll overmitigate and it basically doesn't exist. In fact, I've healed myself through it because Warrior. For the third fight of the tier, it shouldn't be that easy, especially when it's essentially the last "big" attack he does.

Mathematically you do. You can deny that all you want, but when you tanked it at lower iLvl either you mitigated more or you received more healing. The 12 hits come out over a span of 18 seconds. You ain't healing yourself through it, even on WAR, without proper mitigation. The total damage dealt by it to one tank before mitigation is 275k total, roughly. You said you used Rampart at i470. That's believable. By your own admission you dipped to 12k HP. Without further mit/heals, at entry ilvl, you would have died.

The only real bad thing about that fight's design is that the auto attacks don't continue to tick for most of his mechanics.

[Valic]

Fix living dead is the only issue. Give it an increased healing rate of 50-75% while under walking dead. Make your attacks steal health in large increments during this to be able to save yourself from the consequence. Make it esuna-able. There are so many ways they could just make it better. Only need 50% your max hp recovered to remove the status.... AGAIN, SO MANY WAYS THEY CAN JUST EASILY FIX IT. 2nd post is right, invulns ain't an issue, just living dead (and to a lesser extent, the split second between superbolide's invuln and the moment you drop to 1 hp).

[ForteNightshade]

Mathematically you do. You can deny that all you want, but when you tanked it at lower iLvl either you mitigated more or you received more healing. The 12 hits come out over a span of 18 seconds. You ain't healing yourself through it, even on WAR, without proper mitigation. The total damage dealt by it to one tank before mitigation is 275k total, roughly. You said you used Rampart at i470. That's believable. By your own admission you dipped to 12k HP. Without further mit/heals, at entry ilvl, you would have died.

The only real bad thing about that fight's design is that the auto attacks don't continue to tick for most of his mechanics.

Actually, it's around 240,000. Each hit is roughly 20,000 not the 23,000 you mentioned previously. At least going through old PoVs. This assumes zero mitigation. I never denied requiring more mitigation at a lower ilvl, I disturbed how much. Basically, you'll actually need some healing whereas later on, you can get by with almost nothing. Going back to my own example, I only dropped so low because the Scholar literally wasn't healing me. As I said, he slapped a half gauge Fairy Tether and ignored me. At those lower ilvls, Asylum, Regen and Warrior's passive healing could handle it entirely given they healed for roughly 12-14k. Now you'll over mitigate because it's prog but the fact you have every single CD available only trivializes this mechanic further. Being able to slap primarily passive healing—only one being a GCD—at i450 isn't what I'd describe as a threatening buster.

Furthermore, you're severely underestimating Warrior's self healing. Inner Chaos under Nascent Flash will heal you for upwards of 25k; Equilibrium roughly the same if not higher. With Warrior having 130k HP at i450, you can heal through it almost entirely by yourself.

I could go on a further tangent about how poorly designed E3S is. Like the fact it's a glorified normal mode until second Tsunami. But at this point, we're sliding way off topic.