Is it time to remove dots from the game?

[Ultimatecalibur]

K, so not a class design issue? Which is what you were calling it before?
'Cause that's what I'm saying. My thing is it's how the dots are displayed is the issue, not that classes are bad because they have dots.
I think we're looking at this from opposite ends. My perspective is: server -(causing issues with)-> UI display, not dot classes being present -(being bad for)-> other dot classes

It was a data transfer/data storage issue that was simpler and easier to solve with class design changes than trying to mess with the game's spaghetti-coded infrastructure. Pruning extraneous non-combo DoTs such as Fracture, Touch of Death, Scourge, Mutilate and Phlebotomize reduced debuff/dot totals to reasonable levels while also freeing up button space.

God, I haven't had that issue in a long while (I think it's been since ARR Odin), but since I've always had skills that are dependant on dots being applied, I could always tell when they were on (aka, festers hitting for the right amount, thundercloud procs, etc). It's not ideal, but in content with that many people ya rarely have to be 100% optimal. But seriously, what content are you doing right now to have ~50 BRDs or SMNs in one place? I don't think I've seen even eureka get that populated. ._.

HW was where it was at its worst with BRD & SUM dps being hamstrung in alliance raids, Diadem, World Boss FATEs and S-rank hunts. Groups with multiple DoT heavy jobs often had difficulty getting full credit even when they had been there from the start of the fight.

Its not really a problem anymore since the StB debuff and dot purge. Since most jobs no longer have as many dots and/or debuffs the problem isn't occurring with groups as small as 24 people nor groups that are approaching 70+. If jobs had maintained their HW level of debuffs and dots were would be hearing about this problem regularly happening with Formidable, Archeotania, and S-rank hunts

[Vyrerus]

I never want them to remove maintained DOTs, especially on melees. Those DOTs exist so that you suffer disengaging a little less. Ranged DOTs exist... idk, to start putting damage on every monster in a pull. That's what I do with my healer DOTs when moving with a pull. Also what I try to do on SMN, since Bane got kicked in the nuts again, but the cast time on Miasma III, ugh.

DOTs like Sonic Break and Shadow Fang rework... I don't really understand though. I mean, sure, if the DOT is on when you have to disengage, then it serves the same purpose as a regular DOT, but they have that whole period where they fall off and reapplying them can't happen, so if you have to disengage in that window, then they're useless... The only reason I can think of for DOTs like that is to add extra DPS to the job that is more easily limited since DOT tics aren't affected by Direct Hit. /shrug

Also I know it got mentioned, but some people ignored the mention, so BLM's DOTs exist to give them extra movement options. They're turrety enough as is, so I'd rather them not lose those either.

[Jirah]

Some dots feel like skill fodder, but as someone who hates dot management I love bard and summoner way around it. and revamping there kit without it would trivialize the jobs somthing the game has done a great job with, Bard especially as its the only ranged job that doesn't feel boring

[PondHollow]

Why have any skills at all? Just have us mash 1 skill that skill has 1,000 potency every time, is always a direct crit, and the recast time is 0.10 seconds. Peak efficiency.

To be fair, this is almost just what happened to healers. This is how the game is going now.

[Ursa_Vonfiebryd]

They would then have to remove the base skills from Bard and SMN (and SCH). Effective DoT use is what separates the mediocre players from the good players. Have to move for a bit? Place a DoT to keep your damage going. You've never seen melting until you've seen stacked DoT. Honestly the system could be tweaked but I'm not ready to let it go just yet. Lightning 4 on BLM is majestic. Especially for tagging mobs.

I get what you're saying but pairing down abilities even more is not the answer. Its just more homoginization that is already killing the jobs we have.

[Jonnycbad]

DoTs on melee are a way to make us alternate our combos. For mages and ranged, the only point of a DoT is to interact with job gauge, like TC or BRD's bites. DoTs that do nothing except damage are really just on healers and tanks now. Other jobs kinda have DoTs but disguised as pets, like Queen Autoturret is basically a fancy DoT and is more interesting than Lead Shot.

[Puremallace]

Why have any skills at all? Just have us mash 1 skill that skill has 1,000 potency every time, is always a direct crit, and the recast time is 0.10 seconds. Peak efficiency.

This entire thread should have stopped after this post. Why is this thread so long?

[Jonnycbad]

This entire thread should have stopped after this post. Why is this thread so long?

Some people think every job should have dots, like in ARR, and since then DoTs have been slowly removed from most jobs. This is by design, because ARR was about managing DoTs and job-specific stacks. Now, dots are going away and jobs have job gauges instead. DoTs themselves are no longer interesting. Just a thing to press every 30s. They're fine for tanks and healers, but unless they interact with a job gauge like BRD and BLM, DoTs aren't interesting for DPS to maintain other than forcing melee to switch between a direct damage combo and a combo that grants a buff and inflicts a DoT for flavor. There's no reason for -every- job to have to manage them

[HyoMinPark]

Some dots feel like skill fodder, but as someone who hates dot management I love bard and summoner way around it. and revamping there kit without it would trivialize the jobs somthing the game has done a great job with, Bard especially as its the only ranged job that doesn't feel boring

Eh, I wouldn’t say that BRD is the only ranged that’s not boring, personally. Honestly, I find it more boring in ShB because they removed any sort of crit management from the DoTs that they had in SB, and IJ is less potent than your Burst Shot now, so it also lost a lot of value.

As I said before, though: Big NO to DoT removal. Because the last thing BRD needs is more things removed from it and to be dumbed down further than it already is.

[Penthea]

With very few exceptions dots in shadowlands are just pointless busywork that lock you out of using your fun abilities. Want to use your cool big hitting ability as SAM? Not until you waste a sen on a dot cause "it's more dps". Dots should either be removed completely or reworked to do less damage, making them only useful for things like boss transitions so they're not part of a classes' core identity and rotation.

Amusing that a person who is advocating for the removal of dots happens to play a class that has no dots.

Many healers are already upset that their dps kit is even more simple than before. Removing dots would take away some of the little variety they have with offensive spells.

As for dots being uncool, I resent that statement...the spin I do when I cast Biolysis is really cool and I'd hate for it to be taken away!