Is it time to remove dots from the game?

[Roda]

They removed them for a very good reason: During HW (and even as early as ARR) the shear number of DoTs and debuffs applied at one time by characters participating in 24-man Raids, A-rank/S-rank hunts, and Daidem often exceeded the maximum number of visible debuffs and occasionally exceeded the maximum number of appliable debuffs on a target. Players could not tell if their DoTs/Debuff were up which caused sever losses in dps.

So the great DoT purge of Stormblood had a very good reason behind it.

That's an issue with UI design not class design.

[Morningstar1337]

That's an issue with UI design not class design.

I think there was also the matter of the same number of debuffs crowing out the bosses' own buffs, like say, Cloud of Darkness' invincibility.

Course I might be misremebering it as said invincibility, IIRC took the form of Stoneskin buffs and like meant there was a damage threshold that must be exceeded before the cloud can be damaged.

[ItMe]

They removed them for a very good reason: During HW (and even as early as ARR) the shear number of DoTs and debuffs applied at one time by characters participating in 24-man Raids, A-rank/S-rank hunts, and Daidem often exceeded the maximum number of visible debuffs and occasionally exceeded the maximum number of appliable debuffs on a target. Players could not tell if their DoTs/Debuff were up which caused sever losses in dps.

So the great DoT purge of Stormblood had a very good reason behind it.

I think there was also the matter of the same number of debuffs crowing out the bosses' own buffs, like say, Cloud of Darkness' invincibility.

Course I might be misremebering it as said invincibility, IIRC took the form of Stoneskin buffs and like meant there was a damage threshold that must be exceeded before the cloud can be damaged.

Umm...
You know that you can go into the settings and TURN OFF other players dots and debuffs, right?
You can set it to only display yours and the enemys.

[Ilenya]

Umm...
You know that you can go into the settings and TURN OFF other players dots and debuffs, right?
You can set it to only display yours and the enemys.

That doesn't actually prevent the issue with the debuff cap FYI.

[Ultimatecalibur]

That's an issue with UI design not class design.

It was a UI compromise that was only a problem due to class design. A limit of 48 visible debuffs isn't a problem when each player can only apply 1 or 2 stacking debuffs/dots. It becomes a problem when each class applies 3 or more.

Umm...
You know that you can go into the settings and TURN OFF other players dots and debuffs, right?
You can set it to only display yours and the enemys.

That didn't actually do anything (as that option is a client side culling) when the server was not sending you the info on your debuffs/dots. The server only sent out the info on about 48 buffs/debuffs/dots per target (to save on memory use/packet size) while only tracking up to about 100.

[Roda]

It was a UI compromise that was only a problem due to class design. A limit of 48 visible debuffs isn't a problem when each player can only apply 1 or 2 stacking debuffs/dots. It becomes a problem when each class applies 3 or more.

And the solution to that should be to give a clientside priority to show your dots before even trying to show the rest of the raid's. User's dots = Boss's buffs > trick attack = chain strategium = feint = addle = slow = blind = bind = stun = paralysis > other player's dots. The fact that the game puts every status effect into a bucket and just splashes whatever gets applied first onto those two rows is definitely a ui issue.

[Ultimatecalibur]

And the solution to that should be to give a clientside priority to show your dots before even trying to show the rest of the raid's. User's dots = Boss's buffs > trick attack = chain strategium = feint = addle = slow = blind = bind = stun = paralysis > other player's dots. The fact that the game puts every status effect into a bucket and just splashes whatever gets applied first onto those two rows is definitely a ui issue.

The UI pretty much does that as the client parses your debuff/dots and the target's buffs/debuffs to take priority to visualize. The client can not display any info that it doesn't receive. The problem was that the server wasn't and doesn't send the full list of all buffs/debuffs/dots if it exceeds a certain limit. The server only sends you something like the first 48 buffs/debuffs/dots on the target even when it actually has 49+ buffs/debuffs/dots on it. If your debuff/dot ends up in position 49+ on the list no one is seeing it.

[Roda]

The UI pretty much does that as the client parses your debuff/dots and the target's buffs/debuffs to take priority to visualize. The client can not display any info that it doesn't receive. The problem was that the server wasn't and doesn't send the full list of all buffs/debuffs/dots if it exceeds a certain limit. The server only sends you something like the first 48 buffs/debuffs/dots on the target even when it actually has 49+ buffs/debuffs/dots on it. If your debuff/dot ends up in position 49+ on the list no one is seeing it.

Idk how to tell you this, but how the UI interacts with the server is still a UI issue.

It's a lot less likely to happen, to be fair. I only ran into it recently because I happened to catch a hunt train and tried to DoT the hunt. For most jobs it's a non-issue, but I feel bad for any SMN/BRD that gets caught in that.

I know my timers well enough so that it doesn't affect me too badly.