Thread: Dark Knight QOL V.2

Originally Posted by shao32

Well lets see, i will make a list first of you proposed changes to make it simple and be sure i don't forgeth anything.

-DRK feeling slow with his animations, special mention to quietus and bloodspiller

-Living dead with sugestions to dealt with it.

-Dark mind lvl changed.

-Salted earth removed and merged with abyssal drain.

-Blood weapon bunshin proporsal.

-Small Delirium rework.

-Darkside mechanic erased?

-ajustments on learning stalwar soul and his effects.

Maybe i miss something, i did skip the math part mostly bcs i find it unnecesary to analyze and im bad at the art of wizzard math apart numbers can be balanced so i find it unnecesary right now, if i miss something tell me. So lets beging.

-Animations and slow feeling

Well i call this a problem of the current pace of the job more than the animations himself, lets remember DRK use to have a sustained suply of oGCD in the past across the rotation so right now it's way more easy to percive the animations of the soul eater combo and Bloodspiller/Quietus as something slow, they has always been like that, the thing is now we are starving MP and oGCD and see the gap betwen all of them.

Personaly feel like Quietus animation it's ok, the problem is how the skill has been nerfed apart of the lack of oGCD, Bloodspiller is almost the same with the exception bloodspiller is more weird and looks horrible when you interrup the animation with an oGCD, but in resume both skills looks great is they aren't used as much compared to current situation. Let's lookd at SB, nobody really complains about this 2 skills animation bcs they uses where powerful but low uptime skills, now are spamed like madman and Bloodspiller look specially awfull under Delirium for that, both skills aren't mean to be spamed aesthetically wise.

In resume the slow feeling is for the lack of oGCD and the downtime of the job forcing you look at those slow animations during a prolonged preriod of time without any oGCD whatsoever when in HW and SB don't so i don't think they animations should be reduced, more like we need more oGCD betwen them.

-Living dead and sole survivor

It's ok for me i don't see anything bad with that, i personally preffer the sole survivor option due it grant us the oportuniy of use it on livind dead or not depending of what strategic we are using, sometimes we will need walking dead stay up but those situations are like the 0,1% of the game but still neat.

-Salted earth and Abyssal drain

technically speaking there is nothing wrong with this proposition but im with the rest, DRK right now is the most simple and brain dead job of the game, removing salted earth not only will make it even more braindead but will remove the only unique thing outside of TBN the job have to be unique somehow, so while i understand the QoL for a skill that has been unfairly nerfed i wont like that if there is nothing to sustitute his gameplay loss.

-Blood weapon

A bit of the same, nice QoL for a skill that have been awfully nerfed and make it more easy to execute, it will solve the latency problem for sure but design wise i still don't like it.

-Delirium

This one is curious, in fact this one will help on making the job dont feel so slow under his oGCD downtime as adding more oGCD, it will have more sinergy overall with the rest of the kit compared that the current one, but.... and here come the drawback, i can't stop thinking that is a simplified Gnasing fang combo, exactly the same but with only 2 butoms, so we change DRK being a WAR copy to a GNB copy and at the end will solve nothing? well that depends if you goal is make DRK unique or not with this changes.

-Darkside

Maybe i miss something but only saw you removed darkside from both Flood and Edge so DRK will forgeth complety about Darkside? i know the mechanic it's a waste of time and space right now but his comlety removal? well, it won't change anything right now if it was removed but DRK needs complexity somewhere and Darkside needs to be more inclusive gameplay wise not less in my opinion.

-Stalwart soul

Learning Stalwart soul early it's a nice sugestion, i firmly belive DRK need that skill way more early too.

Im a bit indiferent about make them a weaponskill, specially after the bunshin bloodweapon it wont be necesary, but the changes on blackblood generation are another thing, this will make DRK have a combo of 3 in lvl 62 wich is exactly the same way that GNB operate his AOE, using a combo of 2 to generate a cartridge to allow him use his fated circle, will be the same with DRK using his unleash combo to use a quietus rigth after.

in resume your proposed changes stop making DRK being a simplified WAR clone to become a simplified GNB clone with minor diferences and taking way more time to use his "Gnasing fang combo", some things are nice like learning early some skills and the return of sole survivor to help living dead but the rest will make DRK even more simple and don't really help it to find his unique path in my opinion, i hope i helped.

I understand how you would feel different. No doubt that my plan can't hold a candle against the original HW DRK. But at this point hoping for a changes like that look impossible. We were hoping, asking very politely> begging for a rework for a year but to this day we still get nothing so when hoping for a rework [that bring back the original DRK + improvement while keeping the job identity] look like not possible in 5.x I feel... instead of sitting and waiting for 6.0 I might try came up with a tweak instead since we anticipated that what the dev would do isn't a the major rework, but a tweak at best anyway I might try came up with something on my own and that's why I made this but if by any chance the dev really feel like grant us DRK the good rework then I'll gladly take that over mine own little plan and scrap it any day ^_^

*PS* Also Darkside isn't remove from Edge only Flood.

Thank you for spend your time and give me the feedback.

Originally Posted by OdinelStarrei

Blood
This mainly pertains to changing Stalwart Soul to 50 gauge accumulation. I realize why you've done this, it's to make parity between Fated Circle and Quietus, but I think you've missed the mark here by not doing a 2 target potency calculation. To avoid bloating this post even more, I'm just going to use BJ/CC or LL/hand as examples. Demon Slaughter > Fated Circle is an objective gain at two targets, literally drop GF. But Stalwart Soul > Quietus isn't. Even currently it's like that. But because you've increased the amount of blood you gain via Stalwart, you've forced DRK to use Bloodspiller over Quietus even more than we do in two target situations currently since Quietus' potency is unchanged and doesn't have an additional effect like mana generation to make it worth using over Bloodspiller. Right now, you can get 9-10 GCDs of pure AoE (depending on Blood Weapon) without needing to Bloodspiller once, but with your change, you will require dumping every 4 at least, less under a Blood Weapon or coming into a phase with >0 Blood. I'm not exactly criticizing this path you've taken, I'm just wondering if that was your intention. I do support moving Stalwart Soul down though, and Flood of Darkness' (not Shadow) potency nerfed a little bit to compensate for the increased MP at those lower levels. Let me know what you think about this point.

I expected this when I begin on that idea. But what can I say ? even with the normal version we got right now Unleash+Stalwart Soul+Bloodspiller on 2 targets is always stronger than Unleash+Stalwart Soul+Quietus on 2 targets and the real reason is because Bloodspiller potency is around 3 time stronger than Quietus with 600 vs 210 so Quietus will always lose to Bloodspiller on 2 targets aoe rotation. But I can only limit myself to a tweak that require less work for dev instead of the rework now that we see how dev don't show interest in putting much effort.

Originally Posted by OdinelStarrei

I don't know if you've read shao32's DRK thread(i'll post in there someday), but a change in there that I really like was that Flood of Shadow applies the Darkside, and Edge of Shadow doesn't. You have it in reverse here, and I think that's for the worst, you have not changed the core issue of Darkside being brainless by being automatically re-applied and overcapping the Darkside timer during burst. You'd just use Edge one time in AoE to get the buff and spam Flood, emulating a similar problem to WARs being forced to Storm's Eye before beginning their AoE rotation,

Yes, thank you. This one is frankly my miscalculation. It's the right call to asking you for the analysis. I might come back and give more replies when I have the chance. [tomorrow seem like a really busy day]

Originally Posted by cactuarzzzz

I understand how you would feel different. No doubt that my plan can't hold a candle against the original HW DRK. But at this point hoping for a changes like that look impossible we were hoping, asking very politely> begging for a rework for a year but to this day we still get nothing so when hoping for a rework [that bring back the original DRK + improvement while keeping the job identity] look like not possible in 5.x I feel... instead of sitting and waiting for 6.0 I might try came up with a tweak instead since we anticipated that what the dev would do isn't a the major rework, but a tweak at best anyway I might try came up with something on my own and that's why I made this but if by any chance the dev really feel like grant us DRK the good rework then I'll gladly take that over mine own little plan and scrap it any day ^_^

*PS* Also Darkside isn't remove from Edge only Flood.

Thank you for spend your time and give me the feedback.

Yeah i understand, i basically did the same in my Delirium rework threat, i mean asking for smalls changes to make the whole job being more... torelable experience the rest of expansion it's a wise aproach specially when other jobs like MNK or AST are dealing with more serious issues, i did hold my hopes when we complain the first months but right now SHB is a lost cause and i personally have a lot of fear on what will happen on 6.0, if DRK remain like this FFXIV will die for me.

Oh then i missed that detail on darkside thanks for point it, well they have mentioned after me, wich good for AOEs since you will use Edge for darkside time flood will become the main MP expender when not, the problem that doesn't work for single target rotations unless you add a new MP skill that act as main MP expender when you don't need darkside time, like Odinel mentioned in my threat i sugested something similar, Edge don't granting darkside and flood being the only source, that allow us to use flood when we need darkside time and Edge when don't, and in aoe situations i changed Abyssal drain to cost MP so is the same dinamic as Edge and Flood but in aoe situations with Flood granting darkside and Abyssal being you primary MP expender when don't need more darkside time, small diferences but granting greater results i think but in general similar concepts.

And you welcome, i'll try to give you more feedback if you make new stuff like this in the future as i recive feedback from you if you want to too ^^

Originally Posted by Satarn

If you are referring to some other posts I might have made in completely different threads, then that is pretty much the very definition of an ad hominem, which is neither constructive, nor polite really. Those have nothing to do with this discussion and I have no intention of dragging irrelevant things into here. I have not insulted you, I have merely pointed out what your retort came off as - smug and nonconstructive. If you did not mean it in that way, then perhaps I have misread, but it doesn't make it an insult.

And again - randomly implying somebody's not capable of "civil discussion" or giving a "last warning", is yet another thing that comes of as far more aggressive than anything I have said to you. It looks more like you're projecting your own defensiveness onto my words, hence the assumption that I have to be in a "bad mood".

If you were indeed genuinely confused by my reference to SB Salted Earth, then my second post should've been explanation enough, but instead of addressing that, you keep trying to make odd judgments on my mood of all things. If you have no intention of defending your idea though, rather than taking any counterpoints as personal attacks, then I suppose the discussion is indeed pointless.

Why would I try to explain when your action here right now is already what I feared would happen? And all this start with a misunderstood on your side which you didn't feel like apology nor guilty and still try to defend it. The right action [manner] when you misunderstood someone and accuse them for something is to offer an apology but instead you keep pushing forward.

Originally Posted by Satarn

I suppose the discussion is indeed pointless.

Discussion what? it is a misunderstanding and the whole chain of replies from that point till now is how I try to notify you of your mood and your tone while you refused to reflect on yourselves and show no remorse when you made a mistake. The way you post, even the way you start your replies is still the same in job identity post. While you continue to attack me I gave you a warning as a reminder to look at yourself instead of treating you the same way you did to me. We never discussing anything because all you did is attacking me.

I believe normally that you Mr.Satarn would be the reasonable person but right now you look like someone who's in the bad mood that looking for a target for an opening to attack and win. There's no middle ground, no compromise. I have no intent to make an enemy of you and tomorrow is going to be a very busy day so I can't and don't want to continue this any further so if you want to vent something more at me then fine I don't mind but I've to stop now since I've hoped that you would come to your sense sooner before we reach this point but it did not happen.

Originally Posted by OdinelStarrei

..

Odinel as much as I would like this thread to be removed/moved to page 2 of the forum I have no other way to contact you. Do you mind take a look at what I came up with again>https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...t-won-t-happen.

Can I count on your analysis again? thank you.