Shared Classes Are Not Failures (ie SCH/SMN)

[DrWho2010]

i want to start an argument on a public forum where only my point of view is valid! lol

[Wiccan026]

On paper I would love the ability to level one class and get two jobs, one could argue summoner/scholar in it's heyday was superior to other jobs due to that nature.

That being said in practice it causes too much issues (having them linked the way in the OP doesn't make sense either, because while they've changed a bunch of things on summoner and scholar the base kit is still "similar" and shares some things... the other ones wouldn't).

The reason why the devs also didn't want to ever do this again is because it caused way too many balancing issues... and we already have enough lore problems without making it worse by linking things that aren't connected (even if you got the lore right were back to square one of them having balancing issues).

[AceofRains]

“I disagree, and here’s why...”. That’s what you would have said if you came to disagree.
You didn’t initially come to say that you came to scoff are the idea.

The thread is about how it’s not a failure in the aspect of shared exp and we should readdress horizontal growth.
So saying the devs couldn’t execute it right doesn’t really hold up to scrutiny because having Scholar and Summoner grow together is practical and efficient, even if they are two explicitly independent jobs with no shared skills.

[AceofRains]

This literally doesn’t tread on lore. Nor do jobs have to share any abilities at all. Scholar and Summoner share like 2 at this point, and that can even be revised..

[AceofRains]

i want to start an argument on a public forum where only my point of view is valid! lol

Hurhurhur I want to comment on a thread without contributing meaningful discussion to the topic.

[Daniolaut]

I actually like the idea.

Its equally as pointless to magically unlock RDM and be level 50, as it would be to couple it with an existing class.

I personally would like to see new jobs start at level 1, or start at max level. (The level you unlock the job as. For example. if you're 50 unlocking a new job, its now 50. Or if you're 80 its now 80.)

Its so absolutely inconsistent and pointless for 3.0 to start at 30, 4.0 to start at 50, and 5.0 to start at 60. Like that is completely nonsense foolishness.

Also I 100% agree that if people post on the forums they should give logical reason for their response.

/no 10char, is technically against the ToS for the forums, its just unfortunate Square-Enix doesnt delete comments more regularly.


The people who disagreed with you so far, have given 0 logic in their reasoning. They are only fishing for likes and just overall rude for no reason except... well, to fish for likes. Cause like the song goes, "its cool to hate."

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[Mhaeric]

“I disagree, and here’s why...”. That’s what you would have said if you came to disagree.
You didn’t initially come to say that you came to scoff are the idea..

Uh, I said it was nonsense. I'm not sure how much more clear I could be that I was disagreeing with it. Also, I thought you were done responding to me?

[AceofRains]

The people who disagreed with you so far, have given 0 logic in their reasoning. They are only fishing for likes and just overall rude for no reason except... well, to fish for likes. Cause like the song goes, "its cool to hate."

Yes, thank you for pointing this out. It’s very frustrating to deal with. I used to be a frequent poster here years ago, and I’m glad that at least 1 of my suggestions did make it in at 2.0. (I had a thread about familiars and we got minions.). I do not do meaningless fluff. In a forum, only saying you disagree or calling an idea nonsense without backing up your rationale is laziness and borderline trolling.

[Daniolaut]

I didn't say you weren't allowed to state your position or opinion. I'm telling you what my opinion of your suggestion is. You even asked people to do this in your original post. I suppose you only wanted/expected people to agree with you, but things don't always work out that way.

I think your suggestion is bad. No, you should not be able to level up more than one job at the same time. The only reason SMN/SCH can do this is because of the original planned design which they quickly realized doesn't work well in practice. It does not need to be tacked onto other jobs that have nothing whatsoever in common with each other.

I'm going to give you the opportunity to respond with some logic and sense.

Right now, the way it is. And what I gathered from this persons post has nothing to do with "wanting to level 2 jobs at once."

What I gathered, was exactly how the game currently exists, but making a bit more sense of it.

That is....

AST magically being level 30 when you unlock it. Instead of the same level as say RDM and SAM, or even GNB and DNC.

But they dont.

For no reason.

To me, now THAT is nonsense.

What this person seems to suggest, is that there is a bit of consistency.

Since SMN and SCH are the only shared jobs, and they have this mess of other jobs magically unlocking at different levels, he came up with a very good idea, to make it all streamlined. The new jobs for each expansion piggy backing off of base classes.

This gives the choice you make at the start a whole lot more meaning, instead of, "oh look you're a class that will become completely obsolete at level 30 for no reason except we were too lazy to write in better lore, or change the system."

So, with keeping that in mind.

Please tell me, how the current system is not nonsense, and why its better than the proposed idea? Because literally you're already in a way leveling 2 jobs at once, when you do the Main story quest, you unlock new jobs based on that level. So yes, yes you are leveling 2 jobs at once..... at completely random levels mind you. AST 30, SAM 50, DNC 60.

Its just your second one gets stuck at a random level along the way. For absolutely no reason.


So ...
To break it down for you even further.

-Idea:
Streamline all classes and jobs to make more sense. Specialty jobs (new expansion jobs) piggy back off of existing base classes.

-Current system:
Unlock jobs at random inconsistent levels based off the expansion with no lore for the reasoning behind it.
AST, MCH, DRK level 30
RDM, SAM level 50
GNB, DNC level 60.
With future jobs randomly unlocking at even new pointless random levels.

-Your reasoning:
(What I would consider a response from someone who disagrees, and the points they would hit in their response.)

-Why should the current system stay in place. (Jobs unlocking at increasing levels per expansion.)
-Why is the current system not complete nonsense, and horribly inconsistent. Especially with the mindset of a brand new player starting at any given expansion.
-Why do you think inconsistency is good.
-Why do you think it should not be coherent.
-Why do you think there should be no meaning, even a system based meaning such as this, behind base classes, especially when something such as this would actually give impact to base classes without changing a single thing?
-Edit: And why is this idea, "bad" or any different from Square-Enix throwing Exp and levels at crafting and gathering classes, and selling level skip potions in the mogstation?

[AceofRains]

Yes, you nailed exactly what I’m trying to say.

I know Geomancer is a highly requested Job. And exsists in Yanxian lore where earth, wind, and water can form barriers.

Some people even express that White Mage has gone too far away from its Conjurer “roots” as a nature mage.

Geomancer is explicitly a nature mage, and would make total sense to branch off Conjurer.

It’s elementary really. It’s knocking out like 3 birds with 1 stone-

-It revives the obsolete class system
-It streamlines arbitrary unlocked level gates
-It grants more casual players flexibility in what to play, especially in late game raiding