Shared Classes Are Not Failures (ie SCH/SMN)

[Mhaeric]

I didn't say you weren't allowed to state your position or opinion. I'm telling you what my opinion of your suggestion is. You even asked people to do this in your original post. I suppose you only wanted/expected people to agree with you, but things don't always work out that way.

I think your suggestion is bad. No, you should not be able to level up more than one job at the same time. The only reason SMN/SCH can do this is because of the original planned design which they quickly realized doesn't work well in practice. It does not need to be tacked onto other jobs that have nothing whatsoever in common with each other.

[AceofRains]

“I disagree, and here’s why...”. That’s what you would have said if you came to disagree.
You didn’t initially come to say that you came to scoff are the idea.

The thread is about how it’s not a failure in the aspect of shared exp and we should readdress horizontal growth.
So saying the devs couldn’t execute it right doesn’t really hold up to scrutiny because having Scholar and Summoner grow together is practical and efficient, even if they are two explicitly independent jobs with no shared skills.

[Mhaeric]

“I disagree, and here’s why...”. That’s what you would have said if you came to disagree.
You didn’t initially come to say that you came to scoff are the idea..

Uh, I said it was nonsense. I'm not sure how much more clear I could be that I was disagreeing with it. Also, I thought you were done responding to me?

[Daniolaut]

I didn't say you weren't allowed to state your position or opinion. I'm telling you what my opinion of your suggestion is. You even asked people to do this in your original post. I suppose you only wanted/expected people to agree with you, but things don't always work out that way.

I think your suggestion is bad. No, you should not be able to level up more than one job at the same time. The only reason SMN/SCH can do this is because of the original planned design which they quickly realized doesn't work well in practice. It does not need to be tacked onto other jobs that have nothing whatsoever in common with each other.

I'm going to give you the opportunity to respond with some logic and sense.

Right now, the way it is. And what I gathered from this persons post has nothing to do with "wanting to level 2 jobs at once."

What I gathered, was exactly how the game currently exists, but making a bit more sense of it.

That is....

AST magically being level 30 when you unlock it. Instead of the same level as say RDM and SAM, or even GNB and DNC.

But they dont.

For no reason.

To me, now THAT is nonsense.

What this person seems to suggest, is that there is a bit of consistency.

Since SMN and SCH are the only shared jobs, and they have this mess of other jobs magically unlocking at different levels, he came up with a very good idea, to make it all streamlined. The new jobs for each expansion piggy backing off of base classes.

This gives the choice you make at the start a whole lot more meaning, instead of, "oh look you're a class that will become completely obsolete at level 30 for no reason except we were too lazy to write in better lore, or change the system."

So, with keeping that in mind.

Please tell me, how the current system is not nonsense, and why its better than the proposed idea? Because literally you're already in a way leveling 2 jobs at once, when you do the Main story quest, you unlock new jobs based on that level. So yes, yes you are leveling 2 jobs at once..... at completely random levels mind you. AST 30, SAM 50, DNC 60.

Its just your second one gets stuck at a random level along the way. For absolutely no reason.


So ...
To break it down for you even further.

-Idea:
Streamline all classes and jobs to make more sense. Specialty jobs (new expansion jobs) piggy back off of existing base classes.

-Current system:
Unlock jobs at random inconsistent levels based off the expansion with no lore for the reasoning behind it.
AST, MCH, DRK level 30
RDM, SAM level 50
GNB, DNC level 60.
With future jobs randomly unlocking at even new pointless random levels.

-Your reasoning:
(What I would consider a response from someone who disagrees, and the points they would hit in their response.)

-Why should the current system stay in place. (Jobs unlocking at increasing levels per expansion.)
-Why is the current system not complete nonsense, and horribly inconsistent. Especially with the mindset of a brand new player starting at any given expansion.
-Why do you think inconsistency is good.
-Why do you think it should not be coherent.
-Why do you think there should be no meaning, even a system based meaning such as this, behind base classes, especially when something such as this would actually give impact to base classes without changing a single thing?
-Edit: And why is this idea, "bad" or any different from Square-Enix throwing Exp and levels at crafting and gathering classes, and selling level skip potions in the mogstation?

[AceofRains]

Yes, you nailed exactly what I’m trying to say.

I know Geomancer is a highly requested Job. And exsists in Yanxian lore where earth, wind, and water can form barriers.

Some people even express that White Mage has gone too far away from its Conjurer “roots” as a nature mage.

Geomancer is explicitly a nature mage, and would make total sense to branch off Conjurer.

It’s elementary really. It’s knocking out like 3 birds with 1 stone-

-It revives the obsolete class system
-It streamlines arbitrary unlocked level gates
-It grants more casual players flexibility in what to play, especially in late game raiding

[Daniolaut]

Yes, you nailed exactly what I’m trying to say.

I know Geomancer is a highly requested Job. And exsists in Yanxian lore where earth, wind, and water can form barriers.

Some people even express that White Mage has gone too far away from its Conjurer “roots” as a nature mage.

Geomancer is explicitly a nature mage, and would make total sense to branch off Conjurer.

It’s elementary really. It’s knocking out like 3 birds with 1 stone-

-It revives the obsolete class system
-It streamlines arbitrary unlocked level gates
-It grants more casual players flexibility in what to play, especially in late game raiding

Because, bringing logic to the forums is apparently taboo.

Its much more popular to be rude, say pointless things, and just post an insulting meme or type no /10char.

Oh.. and saying something off topic. Thats a huge "like" magnet. If someone can say nothing at all, or derail the thread, thats like magic.

I have no idea why.


Again, I used my brain, and saw exactly what you were trying to say. You linked every expansion job to a base job. Anyone with half a brain would have caught on. It had nothing to do with trying to level 2 jobs at once.

Which honestly with the changes to crafting and gathering I dont get how people can get upset with someone even suggesting that. Which you werent even doing that anyway. I mean seriously. You linked only expansion jobs to base classes, then said they would share Exp. nothing else. I took not even 3 seconds to realize each of those jobs dont start at level 1, and thought about how they start at random levels, and was like "this is actually logical 100%."

Then I read a few of the responses, and how people said you were full of nonsense, and I was like... yup, typical FFXIV forum responses. You made absolute sense, and cleaned up the game without changing a SINGLE thing lore, or system wise. You just breathed some sense into it. You actually made more sense in the game, and people said it was ridiculous. Like I wish I could say I was surprised , but I'm not.

[AceofRains]

Ya know it’s sad that it’s like that. I have tons of ideas that I just write down on my phone, and I haven’t voiced them in years here because there always this crowd of naysayers that derail the thread before I can generate a discussion. And it’s not like there’s ever really a dev response where they say “oh that’s something we’re considering too.” It’s always the silent surprises with this dev team and they really need to cut that shit, because player input is what saved this game from oblivion. I have plans to update my Big Blue Feedback Thread, and I’ve also got a really hot concept for a Summoner rework that doesn’t compromise what Summoner is. I try to read what people are wanting out of this game and respond accordingly. It’s really not about me alone, ya know?

[DrWho2010]

Ya know it’s sad that it’s like that. I have tons of ideas that I just write down on my phone, and I haven’t voiced them in years here because there always this crowd of naysayers that derail the thread before I can generate a discussion. And it’s not like there’s ever really a dev response where they say “oh that’s something we’re considering too.” It’s always the silent surprises with this dev team and they really need to cut that shit, because player input is what saved this game from oblivion. I have plans to update my Big Blue Feedback Thread, and I’ve also got a really hot concept for a Summoner rework that doesn’t compromise what Summoner is. I try to read what people are wanting out of this game and respond accordingly. It’s really not about me alone, ya know?

if they took every silly fan idea to heart this game would be a complete mess.

[AceofRains]

if they took every silly fan idea to heart this game would be a complete mess.

Interesting because in some regards, this game is a complete mess, which is why they have to go back and clean up older expansions. I’m suggesting a concept that cleans up something that’s all over the place.

Next time you post, try to contribute to the topic whether you are for or against, or please leave the thread.