Increase Difficulty of Dungeons

[Vyrerus]

) there is not at least one single complex job per role for people to have fun . everything is accessible but a person wanting a job that isnt patronising him and handholding him , because they are already experienced and simply want something a cut above in challenge , isnt an unreasonable request to have.

See the thing is, is they do make jobs like this. Hard to master, hard to learn, and hard to play. At least in the past they did. Problem was, SE didn't want to make them as strong as other jobs that were easier to play. OG DRK vs. WAR for example. OG. DRK had a lot going for it. It took a lot of skill to play well, a lot more coordination, and it was a lot of fun. But as far as effectiveness goes, it still lost to WAR in DPS, in overall mitigation, and had an inferior invuln to boot. It edged out PLD only due to fight design revolving around it, and its high DPS...

So the general consensus became, "Why play something that takes a lot of effort if it's not going to outperform something that doesn't?" And SE won't make jobs like that again because...

1) They actually stink at the balancing act, that's why they keep pressing to homogenize. They basically want people to play jobs based on flavor, not effectiveness.

2) They are unwilling to make jobs that are outright better than old jobs, because despite the fact that anyone can level anything, people stick with their favorites and don't want their favorites to be bad. So they can never release anything that is too good, even if it's complex. Which is what lead to how bad all the Heavensward jobs were at their release, vs. how absurdly good SAM and RDM were at their release to now GNB and DNC with both basically being perceived as great, but neither actually being so outlandishly great nor complex that they suffer the problems of old.

And the real kicker is, even with how easy and samey they've made just about everything, people still say it's too hard to learn.

[Jirah]

Agreed

Never heard a single decent counterargument for this as most of the dungeons are insultingly easy which I excepted as they don’t seem properly scaled. Most cases as a SCH I don’t even have to use a fairy or heal for that matter.

Then theirs the real cream of the debate, the structure is stale and uninspired. Trials improved a lot but dungeons regressed far worse. Many interesting mechs can be done with dungeons but aren’t out of fear of the “ItLl rUiN RoulEttE” or “iTs tOo haRd” complex doesn’t mean Sastasha Savage, just add abit if depth that has been missing.

[ItMe]

Vyrerus, you forgot:

3) the devs have said they don't like how the game had "a meta" and have been actively working away from one (and overcompensating).

[MaxDetroit]

Or give us "Extreme" versions of dungeons.

[Anya_Synia]

Unfortunately unless it's current content you are going to find the old content is going to be a cakewalk until you get up to the current content, because everyone is going to be over geared and can pull the whole dungeon because it's quicker. Unless you do content when it is released, where tanks suddenly realise they cant pull the whole dungeon you are always going to have this problem. The only other choice is to get into the high end game content where the difficulty jumps.

[ItMe]

No, thank you. Please do not increase difficulty of the game.

We're not talking about making the general level of difficulty higher.
We're talking about adding some new hard content for the crowds that want it.
Like Savage, no one would have to do it and you'd be fine to relax and enjoy the content you're currently relaxing and enjoying.

[Anya_Synia]

We're not talking about making the general level of difficulty higher.
We're talking about adding some new hard content for the crowds that want it.
Like Savage, no one would have to do it and you'd be fine to relax and enjoy the content you're currently relaxing and enjoying.

The only problem with that is you run the risk of noone running the content, people will either complain it's too difficult and party finder groups, that do the high end content, will rather do the extreme trails and savage raids because it's much quicker than a dungeon.

[Nucah]

Others have said this as well, so apologies if it's duplicative but I would absolutely consider looking into current extreme and savage content.

Extremes are not the hardest content but they are typically more difficult than a dungeon (unless it's something like Bismarck back in the day ) and savages (especially this tier) offer a good amount of difficulty and coordination. Shiva was a very challenging fight (imo) and I think if you like hard, challenging content, you'd likely enjoy that.

Lastly, there is ultimate fights as well. Dungeons were never made to be for the hardcore. I would love to see different difficulty levels of dungeons for sure but for now, you can't scratch that itch with the available content that I've mentioned above.

Good luck!

[Tracewood]

I would love to see Savage dungeons, or maybe revamp the current Savage system and just do one great big eight man dungeon with checkpoints, they'd have to change the loot system to that of the normal raids or if someone jumps in too far ahead they'll lose out on loot for the week. They had something going with Coils and Alex, but eventually they made them into harder Extreme trials since Stormblood.

[Puremallace]

How I would fix difficulty:
1. In game leaderboards utilizing the timer that exist when you solo an instance
2. No gear reward as this would only be for people looking for smack talking rights and a challenge
3. Allow people to add modifiers to dungeon when that they can pick in the duty finder. Maybe five options like Bosses do 1x, 2x, 3x, 4x more damage.

This system allows you to pick an ARR dungeon to speedrun with friends but with different modifiers. Loot would be no concern because you would need max ilvl anyways. Add an entire set of achievements around this system with titles and mounts if you want.

Anyone asking for a Mythic system from WoW with gear rewards can feel free to go see my thread below about why that system is busted for a majority of the playerbase and how it throws a major wrench into current FF14 gearing. The people asking for more difficult content are normally geared out of this world anyways and want a system they can challenge themselves in.