"Elitism" vs "Casualism"

[Daniolaut]

Greetings fellow Eorzeans.

Lately there has been talk of things such as:

"Elitism"
and
"Casualism"


I know this is likely going to see backlash, but I feel its important to at least attempt to share and spread my idea, that

Anyone can clear any fight.

Its actual fact that a party full of "grey parses" can clear savage, as well as likely even ultimate.



I personally feel, based on my experience, as well as comments and activities mentioned by twitch streamers and youtubers, anyone failing to pull orange parses, or world first, or week 1 final fight progs are now considered casual.

From "skip soar" to now "everything uptime" the community is more and more accepting of "dps mentality."

It seems the only line you cant cross, is ...
Specifically...
...creating a twitch following, and having your entire FFXIV and twitch community harrass a single individual.

Which if you ask me, I find that the extreme, not the base line, but I have never been on the side of parsing and treating others below me mentality.

The reason I feel "elitism" and the idea that everyone should perform at a ridiculously needless high level, is unhelpful. This is because this turns away a lot of players, who very likely otherwise would perform more than sufficiently in a savage setting.

Also, even from this meme, it is deduced that anyone who does not "actually try" or "take something serious" is seen as a lower individual, when is the furthest from the truth.

(the person not playing tic tac toe properly is being percived as a casual, and pictured as intolerable for simply not taking tic tac toe seriously. When in reality absolutely no one plays tic tac toe like this, nor does anyone play any game in such a manner. This is only insulting to anyone who uses the terms: "its just a game.")

So I decided to fix this meme, and share the truth of how things actually are.





It has even now been said you "should" and I quote exactly word for word:

"If your group's not doing uptime strats, bully them into doing them."

Taken from here:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...gid=2085396304


It has also been said that actions such as Clemency and even ones such as The Blackest Knight, are now considered "bad" skills, and should not be used.

These things are getting more and more widly accepted, and I strongly feel, if it was not for Square-Enix literally and directly combating this mentality by making changes, such as deleting off tank stances, these things would be even more out of control.

I would not even be making this post, if there werent twitch streamers literally in one instance absolutely ripping into a healer who cast "ONE MORE STONE FOUR!!!" when they are a tank, who just took a damage taken up debuff, and died. When in another video by the same streamer, says these words "if its not a damage down debuff, its not a debuff."

In that same vien, I myself, have died numerous times to
-lack of heals, while performing all mechanics perfectly and utlizing debuffs such as Addle or Feint, as well as second wind, and bloodbath actions.
-Ripping threat from a tank even while properly using enmity reduction actions (thankfully this is not longer an issue) simply because I was out performing them.
-Seeing healers rip threat from tanks because too many people are taking extra damage and taking damage up debuffs, because they are "greedy."


In closing or ..
"TLDR"
I feel everyone can clear any fight, and players should adapt to a situation, with the goal of success in mind.

Simply pushing more damage does not always equate to success. If fact most often than not, the opposite is true.

Also fixed a "popular" meme.

[Vahlnir]

There's another thread about this already. We didn't need another. Even now though I feel that thread has reached its limit, but everything you have said here has already been said in varied ways in that other thread.

[Daniolaut]

There's another thread about this already. We didn't need another. Even now though I feel that thread has reached its limit, but everything you have said here has already been said in varied ways in that other thread.

When I stop dying to raid wide damage, while performing mechanics perfectly, and using Second wind, Addle, Bloodbath, and Feint, I will stop repeating threads.

[Seddrinth]

I personally feel, based on my experience, as well as comments and activities mentioned by twitch streamers and youtubers, anyone failing to pull orange parses, or world first, or week 1 final fight progs are now considered casual.

If you are referring to the other thread then literally no one is saying this or implying this. They are talking about people who refuse to take advice or put any effort into being a team player.

[ForteNightshade]

There is a great deal of exaggeration in this. So lets dissect some of them!

Its actual fact that a party full of "grey parses" can clear savage, as well as likely even ultimate.

Shiva required enough DPS that even a single death meant you'd wipe barring absolutely stellar performance. Even now, twenty odd weeks later, it remains impossible to clear her without reasonable DPS contribution from both healers. Furthermore, none of the Ultimates can be cleared by your typical grey parsing players. What do I mean by that? A grey parse in Ultimate will be much higher than Savage simply due to their being significantly less players to average out. Now you certainly don't need to top tier orange across the boards, but you can't limp through Ultimate DPS checks when they're current.

Also fixed a "popular" meme.

You "fix" is nothing but a strawman. It suggests the person demanding more expects 99% orange tier raiders—or has you put it, "state of the art technology." No one has that expectation. What they do expect is reasonable competency and a little effort. Wanting someone to AoE a large pull is not demanding "state of the art technology."

Taken from here:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...gid=2085396304

You are taking that statement far too literally. NEST "bullies" and frequently jokes about it yet no one would ever consider it actual bullying. That being said, if you care about your damage, Melee players have no choice but to insist on uptime strats, especially when our range options are so pitifully weak. Now you might argue they shouldn't care, however that isn't your business. Plenty of people find increasing their damage and performance fun. If they're forced to constantly lose DPS, thereby making it impossible to reach their goal, they may not find it fun. In which case, they need to find another static.

It has also been said that actions such as Clemency and even ones such as The Blackest Knight, are now considered "bad" skills, and should not be used.

First and foremost. Anyone who unironically says TBN is bad, has no idea what they're talking about. So long as TBN breaks, it's a DPS neutral ability, i.e., it's free mitigation. Clemency is considered "bad" only outside prog because it's simply unnecessary. Even in that context, those citing it bad are usually referring the Paladins who spam it on themselves whenever their HP dips below 90%. If a single use of Clemency saves your Ultimate run, you won't hear any complaints.

Regardless, the whole DPS mentality is the fault of the dev team not the players. There is nothing else to focus on in this game except damage. One of the chief complaints from healers this expansion is how little they actually have to heal. Likewise, DPS stance on tanks became so prevalent because nothing required tank stance. You gimped your damage for no actual reason. You go on to say people should adapt. That is precisely how the DPS mentality evolved. Players adapted to the low healing requirements, low outgoing damage and scripted nature of encounter design which allowed an increase focus on DPS. In the case of healers, they have two options; focus on their damage or stand around doing absolutely nothing because even Savage requires very little of their healing kit relative to how much downtime they actually have.

When in another video by the same streamer, says these words "if its not a damage down debuff, its not a debuff."

Why would I be threatened by a vulnerability stack that doesn't carry any significant risk? I've had seven invuln stacks on the last boss of Grand Combos. He still didn't break 60k with his tank buster. With that knowledge, I have zero reason to care about getting them. That doesn't mean I'll go collecting vuln stacks for giggles but if there's a choice between losing uptime and not getting one. There is no incentive to give up said uptime. A damage down, on the other hand, defeats the very purpose of greeding uptime. Hence why people will respect those mechanics. Put simply, the punishment has to be enough of a deterrent or it isn't a punishment.

[TyrTry]

Here we go again...

[HeulGDarian]

Here we go again...

Perfect free popcorns for everyone , speaking of which , SE PLS BREAD EMOTE IS GREAT, GIVE US POPCORN EMOTE. ok you guys can go ahead . amuse me

[LittleImp]

It is actually possible to be worse at this game than someone else. People seem to have a weirdly hard time reconciling with this idea on FFXIV. Being bad does not make you less valuable as a person, but it may make you less valuable as a player.

[Canadane]

Greetings fellow Eorzeans.

Lately there has been talk of things such as:

"Elitism"
and
"Casualism"


I know this is likely going to see backlash, but I feel its important to at least attempt to share and spread my idea

Not to be rude, but I don’t think it’s that important.
If you wanted to share your ideas there was already a great topic for it, which you seem to be well aware of.

[TheRealQuah]

lots of ridiculous over exaggeration

I was pretty sure this was a troll post, and then read where you said people are calling TBN bad. That's when I knew for sure it was a troll post, because all I see people saying is that it's the most powerful skill in the game.