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  1. #1
    Player
    Archwizard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Location
    A café at the edge of the universe
    Posts
    1,130
    Character
    Archwizard Drake
    World
    Sargatanas
    Main Class
    Red Mage Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Sqwall View Post
    -snip-
    I think there's room for many of those buffs to be added to the game without having to create a role dedicated to it. Several games have tried to reinvent the Trinity before or at least suggested the possibility, but I'm not sure any have ever managed to balance it to a point it's worthwhile; either you create situations where certain buffs and debuffs are always expected anyway as a bare minimum for all raid DPS and encounter mechanics, thereby crippling your composition if you don't have X specific job in the party (which is why we have Role Actions for those types of mechanics); or you create wildly imbalanced scenarios where some buffs work too well for certain encounters and others have no effect too much of the time to be remembered when they are useful or sustainable as their own abilities in the long-term (like the attitudes toward non-stun CC in this game).

    I'm reminded of Instructor Razuvious from WoW, where one of his mechanics required players to mind control his minions in order to break through his mitigation. Since only one spec was capable of mind control (out of 27 when it was current content), it meant at least 2 players in each raid were required to be Shadow Priests to beat the boss. The devs later reworked the encounter so that mind control crystals were available inside the arena to avoid forcing any one class into or out of the raid, and future encounters that required CC usually had access to CCing items within the arena.
    Or of how one class, Shaman, was given exclusive access to the Bloodlust spell that gave the entire raid a massive damage buff once per encounter. Encounters were then balanced with Bloodlust taken into account for DPS checks, or build with short windows where this buff could be used at all, which then necessitated spreading out that buff to other classes.

    I'm 100% for certain jobs gaining effects like En-elemental buffs or Thorns, or even increasing the viability of debuffs like Blind and Slow so that CC has a place and more diverse/complex tactics can be deployed for high level encounters. (Bearing mind that elemental vulnerabilities aren't actually a thing in 14 since ARR, and that all elements are just flavored "Magic" damage, so that each job's access to certain elements, particularly BLM, is more focused on relation to mechanics than damage types.)
    I also think these are things that jobs we already have could do. We already have Bard, Dancer and Astrologian casting regular buffs in addition to their main role, and I'd be happy to see GEO introduced with its own spin on that. Effects like Slow and Stop would be perfectly fitting in AST's arsenal, both aesthetically and as mechanics for reducing damage intake to fit its role. I'd love to see SCH's Selene reworked so that her Fey Union puts Spikes/Thorns on her target or some channeled AoE attack that follows an ally, or have their Repose replaced with Toad.
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    Last edited by Archwizard; 07-28-2020 at 12:22 PM.

  2. #2
    Player
    Sqwall's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    844
    Character
    Sqwall Lionheart
    World
    Diabolos
    Main Class
    Warrior Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Archwizard View Post
    I'm 100% for certain jobs gaining effects like En-elemental buffs or Thorns, or even increasing the viability of debuffs like Blind and Slow so that CC has a place and more diverse/complex tactics can be deployed for high level encounters. (Bearing mind that elemental vulnerabilities aren't actually a thing in 14 since ARR, and that all elements are just flavored "Magic" damage, so that each job's access to certain elements, particularly BLM, is more focused on relation to mechanics than damage types.)
    I also think these are things that jobs we already have could do. We already have Bard, Dancer and Astrologian casting regular buffs in addition to their main role, and I'd be happy to see GEO introduced with its own spin on that. Effects like Slow and Stop would be perfectly fitting in AST's arsenal, both aesthetically and as mechanics for reducing damage intake to fit its role. I'd love to see SCH's Selene reworked so that her Fey Union puts Spikes/Thorns on her target or some channeled AoE attack that follows an ally, or have their Repose replaced with Toad.
    Yeah I remember the same situation in the early versions of LOTRO where you had to bring certain classes with you to pass content. I used to play as a captain and that class was the only class in the game that had 2 seperate battle rez's, could place banners on the ground to give HP bonuses or regen bonuses, and dispel fear effects on raid members. This was also a specialized skill tree for buffing and raid centric play style. I have had numerous discussions how FFXIV will never have a class like this, and for the most part I think everyone is correct. We will never see a sole buffer in the game due to how SE designs endgame content to be non-exclusive.

    I suppose I will always think of the days I was a complete support role that did minor healing, did minor dps, but offered amazing utility in the form of in-combat regen for sustainability. Captain was sort of like dragoon and dancer rolled into one job! At that time the content was designed around every role though, and LOTRO has lost it's way since then changing developers, and FTP model ruining the hardcore scene.

    Rift of Nurz Ghashu was a prime example of where endgame content could go. You had to have every class represented to pass anything in there. Each encounter leaned into 1 class more then the other for certain mechanics. Communication had to be on point. If you see the videos of the raid now it's more then likely dumbed down, or maybe it's the same as it was 13 years ago. LoL sorry just reminiscing.
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