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[Archwizard]

Do you want me to bring up posts where people have said it can't be? I can certainly track down those posts for you.

Go ahead.

As for what it brings to the table White Mage doesn't, it doesn't use anything Light, and White Mage has dropped Wind/Earth spells. It's really not any more special than that.

I find it amusing that you're arguing what it wouldn't have instead of saying one unique thing that it would have -- and every healer has a ground-targeted effect, while zero casters do anymore. Once again, you are only arguing using negatives.

I find it really weird you're trying to call me out about being emotional in this conversation

I didn't say anything about being emotional. I just said your argument style is nonsensical and petty.

That's like arguing Voidsent (which were summoned by Black Mages in the Mhach war) do the same thing as Black Mages, and it's very easy to point to things Voidsent do that Black Mages don't.

... and easy to point out lots of things Mhachi sorcerers could do.
Also, Voidsent usually weren't created by Black Mages, and exist on a separate plane to be called upon? While Sai Taisui are constructs created by Geomancers and given life through their magic?
A better analogy for Voidsent would be the Apas, Dharas or Anilas summoned by the Sai Taisui.

I'm... not sure you quite understand what I'm arguing here as you're kind of missing the key distinction. None of this is about the fact that he's a Conjurer. It's that he's not just a Conjurer.

Placeholder.

[MirronTulaxia]

Go ahead.



I find it amusing that you're arguing what it wouldn't have instead of saying one unique thing that it would have -- and every healer has a ground-targeted effect, while zero casters do anymore. Once again, you are only arguing using negatives.



I didn't say anything about being emotional. I just said your argument style is nonsensical and petty.



... and easy to point out lots of things Mhachi sorcerers could do.
Also, Voidsent usually weren't created by Black Mages, and exist on a separate plane to be called upon? While Sai Taisui are constructs created by Geomancers and given life through their magic?
A better analogy for Voidsent would be the Apas, Dharas or Anilas summoned by the Sai Taisui.



Placeholder.

1. https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...=1#post5350459
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...=1#post5351810
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...=1#post5351811
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...=1#post5351815
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...=1#post5357687
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...=1#post5358752
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...=1#post5358795 (This one is important here as it says there isn't even a slight possibility)
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...=1#post5360090
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...=1#post5360164 (I would argue this counts due to improbable)
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...=1#post5360362
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...=1#post5360374
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...=1#post5360534
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...=1#post5360688
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...=1#post5360706
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...=1#post5361471

I'll point out, this is just my using one thread. I'm sure I can find others. And this is only my using things since I rejoined this forum, not digging further. All of those are either explicitly or implicitly denying the possibility of Geomancer as a healer.

2. I... was arguing what it would have if you read the "Wind/Earth" correctly. The obvious answer is it has Wind/Earth/Water. But probably most simple is "what do you see as being new for a healer"? Bearing in mind aesthetics are arbitrary, what mechanics can you point at as being possible for a new Healer that Geomancer can't use?

3. You said "I wasn't pinning it on you. I'm saying that you use nonsense and petty arguments against it as if Water mages killed your parents". To me that reads like you're saying I'm overly emotional about this. Feel free to try to paint it as something else though.

4. I mean, I can point at Egis then, which are created by Summoners. Which... do things differently than what a Summoner does.

5. Are... you planning on finishing the placeholder? I can cite him using Qi of Water with water aether, and I can cite the wind aether of Cure. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNRaKBJ8l-0 at 49 seconds shows him doing it, and https://i.imgur.com/6PhyYbl.png?1 is the Wind Aether of Cure. So they didn't just copy and paste, they changed it. Again, we can argue about the degree to which things changed, we can argue about what it means, but that it's not just Conjurer with different names but a different aether whorl means they made the change for a reason.

[Archwizard]

I'll point out, this is just my using one thread. I'm sure I can find others.

Every one of those posts I'm seeing is defending the lore and role distinction between GEO and CNJ, noting the great amount of precedent in both the lore and throughout the series for it as a damage job and comparatively little on its unique healing abilities, or pointing out that if it were to be listed as a Healer it would have/rely on more significant overlap with WHM than any other two jobs have with each other. I'm also noting that none of the posts say "It could never be a healer" as you say, several even cede healing is possible, but point out that it would be redundant, unprecedented, or otherwise highly unlikely.

But probably most simple is "what do you see as being new for a healer"? Bearing in mind aesthetics are arbitrary, what mechanics can you point at as being possible for a new Healer that Geomancer can't use?

Glad you asked!

A Healer candidate I've proposed in the past has been Necromancer (or similar dark-based mage). An odd choice perhaps, but there's enough archetypal data available to build it for potentially any role, with healer as one it would be most unique on (considering it would have to compete with DRK and SMN in other roles). Necromancer has had precedent in the series, having been proposed as a job in FF11, and has some lore sprinkled throughout FF14 establishing they do exist.
And let's not forget, traits and a limit break based on reviving the dead.

Drain-based healing, including siphoning job gauge resources through attacking or displacing its own health onto allies, giving it the essence of a "Battle Healer".
Distinct cooldowns like giving allies' damage vampirism or ghastly evasion, inverting incoming damage, and placing phylacteries on allies as last-hit protection (think Reraise, or Living Dead).
Crowd control effects like fear, paralysis, and zombification to reduce incoming damage.
Curses and execution attacks (like Urianger's version of Death) for damage support.

Name one of those that another healer has, much less crossing over with GEO. Sets the bar pretty high, I must say.

Do I think it's likely? Maybe, maybe not; this is already assuming exactly the kind of healer overhaul that players have been begging for and the devs have been hiding behind for years. I'm sure someone will pin it as being oddly specific, but I'm not too attached to the "how" as long as the "what" is outside the box. It's exactly why I've been averse to Chemist or Time Mage suggestions, since none of them really bring anything new or practical to the table that AST hasn't already experimented with and quietly disposed of behind the shed.

Meanwhile a GEO healer would just be... tossing a clone of Asylum and/or Sacred Soil out a lot, I guess? A super immobile healer? Pass on multiple counts.

To me that reads like you're saying I'm overly emotional about this. Feel free to try to paint it as something else though.

You literally quoted the part where I said you're being nonsensical and petty, and I also revised my example before you replied to the post it was in because I agreed that the original phrasing was extreme.

I mean, I can point at Egis then, which are created by Summoners. Which... do things differently than what a Summoner does.

You could, but they're not infused with the power of the Summoner, they're distilled from the residual essence of a Primal the Summoner slew. The process of their creation is explicitly about separating that essence from the Summoner.

Are... you planning on finishing the placeholder?

No, I was reiterating in one word, Kyokuho's abilities are obviously a placeholder.

I can cite him using Qi of Water with water aether, and I can cite the wind aether of Cure.

Oh boy this argument again.

Yes, they changed one visual aspect. Wow. The camera doesn't even sit on him for long enough to know if they reused the Vercure animation (or Benefic) instead of regular Cure, or if they actually went out and used the Water casting animations from mobs, but I rather think it doesn't matter considering how inconsequential we have already agreed the aesthetic aspect is compared to the mechanics, or rather, lack therein that I've been discussing.