Next Jobs

[MirronTulaxia]

You are twisting peoples words. Reading full assumptions because you are trying to shut out alternative desires and design that dont fit your motive. I used the tautalogical word once. Not sure how that quantifies as a lot but whatever you do you. And you ask me to better read your posts?

You pretend the OP and others are trying to shut down geo healer as a concept while yourself trying to shut down a different concept: namely geo as dps. And your arguments attempt to shut out a possibility. While the OPs argument never even tried to mention the healer geo until you brought it up as your way or the highway thinking.

Can you not see how hypocritical your logic circles are?

You assume these people are shutting out the possibility of geo healer. And then instead of providing evidence for geo healer (the logical thing to do) you just attack their guesses hopes and opinions that are exactly that: just yuesses hopes and opinions.

Stop assuming. Stop twisting words. Stop trying to control everyone that has different desires or hopes for the possible Geo future in the game. You are definately going on my ignore list too mirron.

Given I can point to posts where people act like it’ll definitely be a healer and tell them the same thing you’re simply operating with limited information. And I’m relatively positive even in this thread I’ve said it could be either.

I’m also not sure why you’re bringing up the OP, I didn’t reply to them directly so much as a broad statement originally that is just summed up as “I’m not sure we are getting a water focused mage and I don’t see a huge push from the devs for one”.

I also think you’re reading malice into simply unclear intent and wording from others posts. A lot of people try to imply things and as a general rule I don’t pick up on that. That isn’t my trying to twist words, it’s just my reading it directly. Instead of assuming the worst about people it’s better to assume the best. I find it helps with communication and it’s what I do.

[Archwizard]

Anywho, back on topic, my personal thoughts on some future jobs -

Geomancer - Caster DPS (Bells, Rattles, Wands): A support-based totemic mage of Yanxia that cycles Earth, Wind and Water magic (possibly building into Fire magic finishers?). Some potential skills could include Tornado as an enemy grouping AoE tool, fields that buff allies' damage, and variations of the Malediction and Evocation spells. There's loads of potential for another elemental caster besides BLM, such as one whose attacks of a given element enhance another element in a sequence.

Necromancer Witch Doctor - Healer (Scythes and Sickles Ritual Daggers and Reliquaries/Fetishes): A primal, dark healer of Meracydia who uses sacrificial magic and occult superstitions to pull allies from the brink of death. Weave damage-dealing with healing through Drain spells and risky transfusions. Create brews that temporarily turn allies into undead to give them survival bonuses, or curse foes to receive more and deal less damage.

Corsair/Pirate/Musketeer - Ranged Physical DPS (Dual Pistols): Maritime raiders from Aerslaent who fight as much with pragmatism and wit as with style. Combines aspects of the Gambler with the Gunner to create a rapid-fire sharpshooter with a dynamic, reactive rotation that manipulates slot roulettes for favorable outcomes.

Spellblade/Ravager/Mystic Knight - Maiming Melee DPS (Magic Weapons): Soldiers of old <insert nation here> who wield elemental magic to enchant their blades and cripple their foes with debilitating strikes. Cycle through timed enchantments to empower part-physical part-elemental melee strikes and fuel quick-cast magical finishers.

Beastmaster - Limited Job (Whips): Capture enemy beasts in the wild, train them to develop new abilities, and battle by cycling between your pets in the arena. Oh god that's just Pokemon isn't it-

No, I don't think these are all likely. Yes, I'm aware that I listed two ranged jobs and a melee even though that would be more than we need in the roster.

[AceofRains]

I agree with Mirron that Geomancer will be a healer. It’s nice to ponder what it would be like as a caster, sure that’s fair. I think Geomancer as a caster would try to inspire too much from old FF where you have a spell caster based on terrain, and that really doesn’t have a place in this game unfortunately.. Geomancy is a lot more than that and the culture of the game already more aptly reflects the Geomancy of reality- which is divination by the earth. The first thing you must do in the Swallows Compass is dispell a barrier made from Earth, Wind, and Water. Those elements are also relative to Conjury- a healing discipline. At the end of the day, I would not get my hopes up for this job to be a DPS role.

[Vendalwind]

I agree with Mirron that Geomancer will be a healer. It’s nice to ponder what it would be like as a caster, sure that’s fair. I think Geomancer as a caster would try to inspire too much from old FF where you have a spell caster based on terrain, and that really doesn’t have a place in this game unfortunately.. Geomancy is a lot more than that and the culture of the game already more aptly reflects the Geomancy of reality- which is divination by the earth. The first thing you must do in the Swallows Compass is dispell a barrier made from Earth, Wind, and Water. Those elements are also relative to Conjury- a healing discipline. At the end of the day, I would not get my hopes up for this job to be a DPS role.

At the end of the day given class distribution I don't figure a caster dps would be the next new job. Which consequently means if a geomancer is added I too would agree with Mirron, it seems to me to be the most likely. I only disagreed with him cause of his subject and manner of argument. That being said my hopes are with a Chemist/Grenadier for the new healer role cause a lot of interesting mechanics could be used for it. Necromancer would be interesting too, I've liked some of the theory crafty lore-bendy void mage ideas as well, but TBH Necromancy is one of the tropes less seen in final fantasy games (5, an offshoot, and 11 only) and I kinda feel it'd be outta place. I've advocated for a possible hybrid melee beastmaster (dual hand axe or handaxe+whip) in other threads, but I wont repeat my rational here.

Other interesting classes of note:
Mystic Knight: definitely possible IMO despite RDMs presence.
Animist: Alternative to beastmaster in many ways but also.....uses instruments. would enable SE to phase bard more fully into its hunter/sniper dynamic and bring music into the animist role. Highly unlikely but a fun thought bubble i once had.
Gambler: Ranged or semi melee depending on how its made, cards and dice. would feel quite at home having its job quests in the saucer.
Orator: speech healer? too similar to scholar probs.
Mime
Puppetmaster
Trickster: (probs too much like NIN, but I'd love a full dual swordplay focused job)
Corsair/Pirate/Musketeer could certainly work. tough tho since limsa pirates are kinda connected to rogues (ninjas) already for whatever reason.

[AceofRains]

It’s gonna be a healer y’all. I’m not gonna get sucked into this debate of maybes. It just is what it is.

Other interesting classes of note:
Mystic Knight: definitely possible IMO despite RDMs presence.
Animist: Alternative to beastmaster in many ways but also.....uses instruments. would enable SE to phase bard more fully into its hunter/sniper dynamic and bring music into the animist role. Highly unlikely but a fun thought bubble i once had.
Gambler: Ranged or semi melee depending on how its made, cards and dice. would feel quite at home having its job quests in the saucer.
Orator: speech healer? too similar to scholar probs.
Mime
Puppetmaster
Trickster: (probs too much like NIN, but I'd love a full dual swordplay focused job)
Corsair/Pirate/Musketeer could certainly work. tough tho since limsa pirates are kinda connected to rogues (ninjas) already for whatever reason.

To be quite honest after Geomancer and Beastmaster are added, this game really doesn’t need anymore. There’s just too much they need to get right with the jobs we already have.

If I had to entertain the thought for at least one more in each catagory however,

Tank: Rune Fencer, modeled after Celes and FFXI’s job of the same name.
Healer: Necromancer, highly requested and stands out from other Healers.
Melee: Viking, a real berserker DPS job.
Ranged: Gambler, a job that’s level progression is based on playing the Gold Saucer. It’s not limited, because limiting a job is bad design.
Caster: Onmyoji or Shaman, creates Shikigami or Totems- something to that effect.

[BasicBlake]

It’s gonna be a healer y’all. I’m not gonna get sucked into this debate of maybes. It just is what it is.





To be quite honest after Geomancer and Beastmaster are added, this game really doesn’t need anymore. There’s just too much they need to get right with the jobs we already have.

If I had to entertain the thought for at least one more in each catagory however,

Tank: Rune Fencer, modeled after Celes and FFXI’s job of the same name.
Healer: Necromancer, highly requested and stands out from other Healers.
Melee: Viking, a real berserker DPS job.
Ranged: Gambler, a job that’s level progression is based on playing the Gold Saucer. It’s not limited, because limiting a job is bad design.
Caster: Onmyoji or Shaman, creates Shikigami or Totems- something to that effect.

It’s not really a discussion of “maybes”. We have no instance of the 14 lore of a Geomancer being a healer, and there is quite a bit at this point for a class that hasn’t been implemented yet. Coupled with the fact that Geomancer has never been a healer in any FF title. And it would be too thematically close to white mage origins as a healer. It’s not a “maybe” it’s given information vs your “feeling”.

Also your thoughts on Onmyoji is just... Geomancer. They create shikigami, and their 1.0 abilities were going to be totems.

[AceofRains]

It’s not really a discussion of “maybes”. We have no instance of the 14 lore of a Geomancer being a healer, and there is quite a bit at this point for a class that hasn’t been implemented yet. Coupled with the fact that Geomancer has never been a healer in any FF title. And it would be too thematically close to white mage origins as a healer. It’s not a “maybe” it’s given information vs your “feeling”.

Also your thoughts on Onmyoji is just... Geomancer. They create shikigami, and their 1.0 abilities were going to be totems.

It’s really not a matter of feelings. It’s plain as day what the game needs versus what the community wants, combined with a lore perspective through the Astrologian quest. Feng Sui is geomantic divination that is supposed to bring harmony and blessings. It is also based on cardinal directions. A well designed Geomancer will play on positioning as well. That is entirely what Geomancer’s lore is based around in FFXIV. Even quelling the ara mitama of the 4 spirits as included. Healers bring harmony and blessings, DPS do not. It’s going to be healer. I’ll bet money on it.

“Feng Shui is a term composed of two Chinese words: feng (wind) and shui (water). Wind and water are the two natural elements that flow, move, and circulate everywhere on Earth. They are also the most basic elements required for human survival. Wind — or air — is the breath of life; without it, we would die in moments. And water is the liquid of life; without it, we would die in days. The combined qualities of wind and water determine the climate, which historically has determined our food supply and in turn affects our lifestyle, health, energy, and mood. These two fundamental and flowing elements have always profoundly yet subtly influenced human individuals and societies.

The essence of these life-giving elements is chi, or life force. Wind and water are direct carriers of chi, as their flowing quality reflects their essential nature. All living organisms are largely composed of these two elements. Thus, Feng Shui is the art of designing environments in harmony with the flow of chi through one’s living space, and this flow supports and enhances one’s personal chi or life force.“ - https://www.dummies.com/health/under...-of-feng-shui/

Uhh yeah sounds like healing to me.

At the end of the day, until and unless Yoshi-P comes out and says it’s going to be this way or that way, you’re all talking out of your fee-fees.


And btw, and Onmyoji is a different concept than a Feng Shui Solider. I kinda forced my self to write Onmyoji, it’s not actually what I care for. I more wrote that based on Meoni’s speculation video on YouTube, in which he did consider Geomancer and Onmyoji two different things. Onmyoji are diviner’s but the also focus on Shikigami summoning. That is not Feng Sui. But like I said, after Geomancer and Beastmaster, this game really doesn’t need more jobs.

[Archwizard]

I agree with Mirron that Geomancer will be a healer.

Careful now, they didn't say it will be a healer, just that it could be.

[BasicBlake]

I agree with Mirron that Geomancer will be a healer. It’s nice to ponder what it would be like as a caster, sure that’s fair. I think Geomancer as a caster would try to inspire too much from old FF where you have a spell caster based on terrain, and that really doesn’t have a place in this game unfortunately.. Geomancy is a lot more than that and the culture of the game already more aptly reflects the Geomancy of reality- which is divination by the earth. The first thing you must do in the Swallows Compass is dispell a barrier made from Earth, Wind, and Water. Those elements are also relative to Conjury- a healing discipline. At the end of the day, I would not get my hopes up for this job to be a DPS role.

Well I guess it's a good thing that all of the instances that we have Geomancer/Geomancer coded things in this game they aren't basing their casting on terrain then! I am not sure I am drawing the comparison where we are having to break into a temple as "yes, this means healing". And while Conjury is based in healing, why would you then say we need a second healing disciple focusing on those three elements? Do you really think we "need" a SECOND Wind/Water/Earth healer? Healers really just waited 6 years for another.... Wind/Water/Earth healer. There are just wildly better options hinted in game for a healer that isn't just a copy of a different healing class we already have.

I know I am going to be beating a dead horse with a stick here with this but: What in Swallow's Compass heals? Where does Seiryu heal? Where was Ganen known as a healer (I mean they could introduce a katana and bell wielding one so know knows eh)? Why does Kyokohu need you to heal if he is already a healer? Why can't Levava use Geomancy if it's healing? Where do they show any Tengu in the game healing?

We just don't have a single instance of Geomancers actually being a healer, or being a healing discipline.

In regards to Vendalwind:

Class distribution? We have 4 tanks, 3 heals, 4 melee, 3 physical ranged. And with us just getting a physical ranged, I would think it would be a pretty common consensus that we will be getting a caster and a healer with 6.0

[Archwizard]

And let's not forget that just because a job has barrier effects in the lore doesn't mean it will heal.

I mean, the Mhach raid has us undoing barriers made by Black Mages, who incidentally have their own shield ability.

Not to mention barrier healing itself is in a precarious position.

That being said my hopes are with a Chemist/Grenadier for the new healer role cause a lot of interesting mechanics could be used for it.

There's kind of a big reason I listed it as a Ranged DPS instead of a healer. (Aside from it expressly not being a Disciple of Magic.)
But when it comes to Chemist, you have to handle its trademark ability: the Mix command.

You got two big options.

One, is you have Mixing be an on-demand ability that functions as the core of their actions. Mix A+B+C to get a bomb, mix B+C+D to get a heal. It would make for the backbone of a solid rotation.
But if the job is primarily a healer, what if you need to stop a damage Mix to actually... y'know... heal?
Easy solution, either make it purely for damage or purely for support, so there's no crossover or potions blowing up in your face because the situation changed. But if you make it purely for support, you have to deal with a high APM task that other healers can handle with one spell (and they do their damnedest to avoid having to use GCD heals as often as possible).
And if you do it to attack...
Healers don't have rotations, for a reason. Notice how they only get a few essential skills for attacking, with an extra or two cooldowns (or pseudo-cooldowns, like WHM's Lilies)? This is because if they had a "rotation" of any complexity, even as simple as a 3-step combo, they would have to step out of that rotation in order to do their main job - healing. They get the basics so they can put it down and pick it back up at any time; their attacks are just meant to be filler between the moments of actual healing.

The other option, is you have Mix be a series of CDs you only use periodically, like the old NIN Mudras or the old AST Spread. Bear in mind that this is not only derivative and hard to make distinct from those two examples, but can mean several Mix combinations will go avoided or unused. The old AST spread got reworked because players were using all of their tools to try and game exactly one perfect combination. Even NIN already avoids Hyoton or Shuriken Toss, and that's in a damage capacity where its rotation could have been built to maximize use of all options - not a support role where the emphasis is on a few priority tools for select emergency functions. I can't name the last time I used Synastry as an AST, because healers are already drowning in higher priority tools.

Mix just doesn't really work for a healer - which is exactly the conclusion the devs came to when they tried to push CHM back in HW, and led to us getting AST with the remnants of their Mix system.

It would work for a DPS, however. Consider that first option again in the hands of a DPS (since the second is, again, just Mudras): Someone who has the time to consider what to mix, who can get mileage out of multiple concoctions in a row ("Here's a corrosive gel that will make the target vulnerable to my attacks, here's a blasting agent that will make my next hit into a napalm attack, here's a powerful incendiary that will activate the blasting agent..."), and can have a niche in groups through pre-selecting concoctions for powerful opening or post-transition bursts. (I mean if you only attack once every 3 GCDs, that third one is gonna hit like a train. Start mixing when the boss invuls, or when you see an add phase coming... you may as well be casting Death.)