All DPS clears highlight a problem with encounter design in ShB

[Hysterior]

I have no idea how SE can fix this tbh...
I think they either did not see how raids changed the healer role and/or they have been too slow to react.
There was no new healer this expansion so they could fix the current jobs and the healing community is even more divided than ever...

Really can't wait to see if the next expansion finds a solution that would be suitable for most or creates an even bigger rift

[Recon1o6]

I wonder which one they will take for 6.0. with the current state of affairs, I wouldn't be surprised if they removed the dots on healers because they're taking up the slot a new healer would use for a cure 1 cast.

Please don't give them ideas, the only reason we haven't lost glare/broil/malefic is because they have a requirement that every job completes the msq

[ForteNightshade]

Please don't give them ideas, the only reason we haven't lost glare/broil/malefic is because they have a requirement that every job completes the msq

That, and they know the healer community would implode if they actually took away the option to DPS. Why even play the job at that point? You'd be doing almost nothing for 70%+ of most fights.

[ItMe]

That, and they know the healer community would implode if they actually took away the option to DPS. Why even play the job at that point? You'd be doing almost nothing for 70%+ of most fights.

[Sarcasm]
No man, don't you see?
Taking away DPS skills would lead to the most intense version of the healers yet, because in order to contribute to the groups DPS you need to autoattack like a maniac.
Can you imagine how RAW it'd be if all the healers suddenly needed to chase the boss and live inside melee range?
Highly dangerous!
Most excellent!
[/Sarcasm]

[Gemina]

I'm not sure how this would make things more engaging with how low damage intake is right now. GcD heals are already quite strong, if you increased their power we could just Medica II each Raidwide, throw an occasional Regen on the tank and mash Glare for the rest of the fight. Also do we count damage neutral instant-cast Gcd's like Rapture as GcD's, because then even less changes. Damage just happens far too infrequently. Look at fights like e7s, where you spend the first 2 minutes barely needing a heal. If you force me to Medica II the Empty wave and maybe consider a Regen after the TB, then spam Glare for the rest I'm not going to suddenly feel engaged.

This is talk right out of the echo chamber. How do you feel about mechanics that reduce HP to critical and inflict Doom like in Hades EX, or having to take big damage in order to remove a debuff like in E5S, or many other savage/EX encounters in the game? Don't talk like healing isn't required, while it doesn't scale correctly and ilv bloat will increase sustainability along with DPS this couldn't be more false. When players talk about increasing healing requirements, it specifically talks about raising the bar from wherever the standard is currently set for any particular encounter. It's not going to be same in all content.

Anywho, the idea is to make healers rely less on their ogcd heals. With these potency decreases and/or CD increases, healers would be forced to fall back on their GCD heals. The potency increases wouldn't be across the board, and would likely only affect their base ST and AoE heals. You can forget about regen taking care of the job as well. They would only restore enough HPS to assist the healing requirement. It becomes more engaging because for a job like WHM, you might not use PoM solely to increase the amount of Glares you dish out anymore. You'll have to think about it first instead of just mindlessly keeping it on CD.

The only problem with this I see is the reluctance to accept it from both the devs and players alike. You've already shown your own objection to the idea using one of the worst fights to encompass the healing requirements of the entire game. Do you want healing to be more engaging as a healer, or not? Anyone whose fallback is to just give us more DPS buttons to push is just defaulting; just like the devs when it comes to the design of healer jobs. The way you engage healers is to push their heals. This is simply a matter of the devs growing some freaking balls, and just doing it. Coddling the lowest common denominator has got to stop.

You have to understand that healing right now is at the point where it would be easier for the devs to cave and get rid of the role than it is to actually fix it. We are not far off from being healers by name only, and they need to turn the ship around before their simplification has an adverse effect, and the only healers left to do Savage are all the ones who have been handed their clears.

[PondHollow]

There was no new healer this expansion so they could fix the current jobs and the healing community is even more divided than ever...

English media used the word 'balance.'

I don't think there's the will to 'fix' them.

[Hysterior]

English media used the word 'balance.' I don't think there's the will to 'fix' them.

I have no idea how SE can fix this tbh...
I think they either did not see how raids changed the healer role and/or they have been too slow to react.
There was no new healer this expansion so they could balance the current jobs and the healing community is even more divided than ever...

Really can't wait to see if the next expansion finds a solution that would be suitable for most or creates an even bigger rift.

Not sure if that changes anything in my message but I hope it makes you happy at least. Have a great day.

[PondHollow]

There was no new healer this expansion so they could balance the current jobs and the healing community is even more divided than ever...


Really can't wait to see if the next expansion finds a solution that would be suitable for most or creates an even bigger rift.

Not sure if that changes anything in my message but I hope it makes you happy at least. Have a great day.

I'll clarify what it changes then. Balance is not and has never really been a particularly significant issue with the healers, and isn't relevant to how fun they are, but that's what SE focused on. It wasn't asked for, but it's what they decided to do. Accordingly, the healers are boring and thus in a broken state, but balanced.

They did not try to fix the healers.

There is no indication that they were or are going to try.

There was no opportunity cost to be paid to fix the healers because that was never on the table and hasn't been publicly mentioned.

They tried to balance them - in the simplest possible manner I should add, by making them very similar. And they got a resounding success at the expense of making fun jobs.

This of course might be an artifact of the official translation, as it's just one word, but if the word choice of 'balance' in the English media was faithful to what they intended to communicate, it is telling.

[Liam_Harper]

This is talk right out of the echo chamber. How do you feel about mechanics that reduce HP to critical and inflict Doom like in Hades EX, or having to take big damage in order to remove a debuff like in E5S, or many other savage/EX encounters in the game?

Hades Doom debuff is great, though not sure what you're talking about in e5s? Stormcloud isn't that bad. The fight overall is slightly more interesting than e6+7 to heal. But I'd like more Doom's, Almagests, ticking DoTs that need to be watched and so on. E7S could easily have added a heavy aoe bleed DoT somewhere in P1.

I'm not entirely disagreeing, but I fail to see how heavily nerfing oGcD heals alone but making no change to any fight design will suddenly fix everything? Sure, some fights might get a little more interesting, like e5, but you'll still have the e6s, e7s, Titana, Inno and so on with those huge gaps where literally no healing is needed and you're back to Glare spam. I still feel Medica II's would cover nearly everything in a lot of cases.

Anyone whose fallback is to just give us more DPS buttons to push is just defaulting; just like the devs when it comes to the design of healer jobs. The way you engage healers is to push their heals.

I'm not sure you read all my post? I'm not pushing for moar dps (though a few extra buttons wouldn't hurt), I'm saying the fights with huge downtime should also throw more threats at us that demand healing and that needs changing too.

But sure, I'm interested. Maybe list all the changes you'd make to potency for one of the healers to illustrate the point?

[QooEr]

i think its both things compounding each other. we have more and stronger ogcds to heal and also less damage to heal in fights. its not like we havent gotten any heal checks in recent fights but theyre really far in between and the other unavoidable damage usually happens once a minute.

i would honestly love if they somewhat nerfed ogcds and made things hit a bit more frequently. i did some min ilv coils of bahamut and for example, the tankbuster flatten in t13 was followed by 2 more hard hitting hits, which meant that rather than just topping the tank with an ED and forgetting about it you had to spam heal for a while. on top of that dps get hit by earthshakers shortly after so you kinda wanna save that instant heal for them too.

i cant really think of any recent fights where damage happens often enough to worry about things like that