Can dragons shapeshift or use glamour? (possible spoilers)

[KayRadley]

I was talking with a friend about possibly making an RP character who is a dragon disguised as an elezen, and was wanting some input from people who are knowledgeable about lore, and clarification on things I might get wrong.

From what I gather and remember at this point:

-Dragons are, in essence, space aliens. All dragons on Hydaelyn trace their roots back to Midgardsormr, who came to Hydaelyn from another world known as Dragonstar.

-Dragons are possessed of powerful magicks, the source of which are their eyes. A dragon who has lost an eye loses a large portion of their power, which anyone who holds a dragon's eye gains their power, albeit at the cost of potentially falling under that dragon's influence (see: Niddhog and Estinien).

-When Niddhog took over Estinien's body through his eyes, Estinien's form changed a few times. First, the eyes were grafted into Estinien's body. Later, Estinien is transformed into Niddhog. During the subsequent trial battle against Niddhog's shade, Niddhog briefly transforms into a humanoid form using Estinien as a basis.

-Dragons that are particularly powerful can maintain some presence in the world of the living even after their body has perished. We see this in Midgardsormr's case when he creates a small vessel to follow the WoL during the latter part of the ARR MSQ going into HW.

-During HW, some elezen transform into dragons when they drink dragon blood. If Spoken peoples can transform into dragons, could the inverse also be possible?

[Shofie]

Dragons in FFXIV have shown no ability nor inclination to disguise themselves as any of the playable races (or anything else really, for that matter), and is more of a concept from World of Warcraft where their dragons do it regularly.

They DO have powerful magick, but at no point has shapeshifting into non-dragonoid forms ever been seen before. While I can't say it "can't" be done, there's absolutely no precedent for them to do so.

We have multiple examples of elven bodies transforming into something "draconic" (though they're more like wyverns and I'm not sure those are true dragons, but rather, just pale imitations of them). Once they change, they cannot change back; it's a one-way trip. Estinien is more of a special case because he had an eye, and Nidhogg was influencing him and Estinien's outward change is just more or less a reflection of Nidhogg's corruption. In the scene you are specifically mentioning where Nidhogg puppets Estinien's body around, it's literally done as a way of mocking the player character over his hubris, more or less.

The strongest impression I get from most of the story involving Dragons is that they honestly wouldn't turn into a Spoken race even if they could, because for the most part, we are so far "beneath" them it'd be laughable. Again, there's not really any evidence of any dragon really doing this either; and if any dragon could I'd think Hraesvelgar would be a pretty obvious choice considering he loved an elezen woman and that would've made life a lot easier for everyone.

So I guess the short version is: If your friend is looking for validation that dragons can turn into any of the playable races: There isn't any, nor is there any reason to support it.

However, if you want to do it, go wild, have fun with it. Just realize it's not particularly supported by the lore, and people outside of your RP may not be comfortable with the idea if they consider it lore-breaking.

[KayRadley]

Dragons in FFXIV have shown no ability nor inclination to disguise themselves as any of the playable races (or anything else really, for that matter), and is more of a concept from World of Warcraft where their dragons do it regularly.

They DO have powerful magick, but at no point has shapeshifting into non-dragonoid forms ever been seen before. While I can't say it "can't" be done, there's absolutely no precedent for them to do so.

We have multiple examples of elven bodies transforming into something "draconic" (though they're more like wyverns and I'm not sure those are true dragons, but rather, just pale imitations of them). Once they change, they cannot change back; it's a one-way trip. Estinien is more of a special case because he had an eye, and Nidhogg was influencing him and Estinien's outward change is just more or less a reflection of Nidhogg's corruption. In the scene you are specifically mentioning where Nidhogg puppets Estinien's body around, it's literally done as a way of mocking the player character over his hubris, more or less.

The strongest impression I get from most of the story involving Dragons is that they honestly wouldn't turn into a Spoken race even if they could, because for the most part, we are so far "beneath" them it'd be laughable. Again, there's not really any evidence of any dragon really doing this either; and if any dragon could I'd think Hraesvelgar would be a pretty obvious choice considering he loved an elezen woman and that would've made life a lot easier for everyone.

So I guess the short version is: If your friend is looking for validation that dragons can turn into any of the playable races: There isn't any, nor is there any reason to support it.

However, if you want to do it, go wild, have fun with it. Just realize it's not particularly supported by the lore, and people outside of your RP may not be comfortable with the idea if they consider it lore-breaking.

Oh, the character is mine. I was discussing it with her because we both enjoy RP.

And that's one of the things I like about FFXIV's lore. It is very detailed and intricate (a read through the Encyclopaedia Eorzea books is testament to this), but there's just enough ambiguity and unexplained details that you can play around with it. Hence, even though dragons do not exhibit shapeshifting powers as you have stated, it's not explicitly stated that they can't. I can work in a justification for my character. >w>

Thank you for your reply.

[LineageRazor]

Oh, the character is mine. I was discussing it with her because we both enjoy RP.

And that's one of the things I like about FFXIV's lore. It is very detailed and intricate (a read through the Encyclopaedia Eorzea books is testament to this), but there's just enough ambiguity and unexplained details that you can play around with it. Hence, even though dragons do not exhibit shapeshifting powers as you have stated, it's not explicitly stated that they can't. I can work in a justification for my character. >w>

Thank you for your reply.

Also, a bit of spoilery explanation of how, exactly, Elezen turn into dragons:

It has to do with the origins of the Dragonsong War itself. A thousand years ago, Ishgard was allied with the dragons, but then-king Thordan was envious of their incredible power. He and his twelve most trusted knights ambushed Ratatotskr, one of Midgardsormr's seven children, slew her, and consumed her eyes, which are the source of a dragon's power. Nidhogg, who was already distainful of the mortal races and was also very close to and protective of his sister was enraged by this. He attacked Thordan and his knights and killed all but a few them, Thordan himself among the dead. The remaining knights fabricated a story painting Nidhogg as the villain and returned to Ishgard as "heroes" to found the major Houses of the city.

The reason Elezen can turn into dragons is due to the power of Ratatotskr's eyes. All descendants of the surviving knights (which, after a thousand years, is basically all of Ishgard - or at least, all of Ishgard's Elezen) have inherited a small fraction of this power, and while it doesn't seem to do much to boost their abilities, it does enable them to transform, permanently, into dragons upon drinking dragon blood. Elezen outside of Ishgard most likely would be unaffected by dragon blood, as would any of the other races.

[Brightamethyst]

Can dragons shapeshift or use glamour?

In theory, yes. In practice, unknown.

Magic in the XIV universe is basically all powerful. In theory you can do anything if you have enough skill and aether. Dragons, especially the older ones, presumably have both of those things in abundance, but we don't know how much skill and aether a transformation like that would take.

[Stepjam]

In theory, yes. In practice, unknown.

Magic in the XIV universe is basically all powerful. In theory you can do anything if you have enough skill and aether. Dragons, especially the older ones, presumably have both of those things in abundance, but we don't know how much skill and aether a transformation like that would take.

Well we do have one example of a dragon taking different forms with Midgardsomr. But he's THE dragon, his power outstrips all the rest. Though he does remain a dragon in all his forms, they appear differently (his "normal" form is more of a wyrm, while his minion and mount form look more like a standard dragon), dunno if he could theoretically transform into a non-dragon form.

And you also have the final boss of ShB who transforms from a human form to a more non-human form that doesn't seem to be like a primal, unlike Shiva and Thorden. But once again, who knows if he can actually transform. Elidibus for instance prefers possessing bodies when he needs to pretend to be someone, so it's unknown if he could just make himself look like them.

[MirronTulaxia]

As said magic pretty much can do anything. Even if they don’t literally turn into one I don’t see anything wrong with just a very strong illusion. But we also know physical transformation is a thing, even if we haven’t seen this particular one.

[thegreatonemal]

The only shape shifting we see in this game are the Slyphs and Pixies doing it. I guess dragons might be able to do it but they never would.

[Naria]

The Pixies and Slyphs aren't actually shape-shifting but are using a glamour. Both races are noted to be exceptionally skilled at them. The few times glamour is actually mentioned in story and not just as a gameplay device it seems to be pretty powerful so theorically it seems likely that a powerful enough caster could make a dragon appear like an Elezen. Actual shape-shifting seems more unlikely, I would expect to be more on the level of the magic of the Acsians then anything a mortal (even a dragon) could accomplish. But as others have stated magic doesn't seem to have much limits in FFXIV beyond that of the caster and the availability of aether.

Your character wouldn't happen be inspired by FFXI's Areuhat?

[MirronTulaxia]

I mean, we know that the shape can be changed. Both Elezen being turned into dragons and with overtempering (Satasha HM talks about this a bit) induce physical changes in the body. So theoretically the groundwork is there. Granted it's usually a one way thing we also know that reversing tempering is something they're showing as a concept, so being able to "revert" corporeal aether should be possible.