Red Mage: Potential adjustments

[Gruntler]

I guess I just figured they could sort of reverse it

I suppose that could work?

I could have sworn we had a discussion about this earlier(?)

Yeah. I'm still not 'for' more AoE stuff per se, but if it's there it's there and I'll get used to it. It's really more the ability to instantly manaficate at 10/10 and just go ham on the first pack in a dungeon that pleases me, cause then that melts pack 1 and leaves pack 2 for building meter for the boss while putting Embo and Manaf on cooldown. This is going to feel really good in dungeons so if people who want 7 AoE buttons are happy and it doesn't add button-bloat (my real concern), then I don't mind being wrong about this. Button bloat was really the core of my objection, so something that makes life fun for everyone else AND conserves buttonspace is a win for everyone.

But anyways, same. It's not as if we have any serious dungeon or otherwise particularly AoE-centric content anyways, and BLM and SMN each had expansions in which they were easily the kings of AoE, so I'm not going to begrudge RDM a night under the stage lights.

I mean, it's not like RDM isn't amazing at it now. Though it looks like BLM is getting a bit more power in its AoE kit as well.

I don't mind. I like melting mooks.

It's not that I mind Riposte

I meant Reprise, as Rongway caught. Appreciate the commentary

I'd really like to see Corps-a-corps and Displacement get the Gyoten/Yaten treatment.

I feel like that'd trip over the need to get 4 in manaf window.

T3 Enchanted Moulinets stills seems like too much.

3 Moulis is 60/60 but AoE guage generation is untouched. This changes your pre-manafication build to 10/10 instead of 50/50, which is literally just two dualcast pairs before you're diving in with your burst. So you're going in HOT at the start of the dungeon. Any additional guage is banked so if you spend the first pull casting to build gauge before the tank has things situated (as best as you can) you can then have work put towards the next pull as well. If you end up not using meter on the second pull, that's meter you WILL have for the boss, so it all works out.

It was not shown in the job actions trailer

Yeah, it's just we won't need a gauge dump to prevent overcapping, and we can bank melee phases for movement... so it's hard to say what the intended usecase for Reprise will turn into.

It might even just become a 'use it if you got extra' button. I dunno. I wouldn't be shocked if it got pruned and I wouldn't be shocked if it stayed. I prefer if it stayed though.

[Shurrikhan]

I feel like that'd trip over the need to get 4 in manaf window.

How do you mean?

That "need" is itself dependent on how Manafication works at present (damage buff and resets) and the whole idea of Corps-a-corps and Displacement (which I feel should lead more towards the sword feeling like an advantage, in the form of low-cost and very open mobility, rather than a fetter, per the current ppm -- which is itself, naturally, siphoned from everywhere else in the kit).

It's really more the ability to instantly manaficate at 10/10 and just go ham on the first pack in a dungeon that pleases me, cause then that melts pack 1 and leaves pack 2 for building meter for the boss while putting Embo and Manaf on cooldown.

Same. RDM dungeon-running in practice has always been a lot... clunkier than it has any need to be (e.g., in terms of its guiding design philosophy). This should really mostly replace that with just further sheer glee.

As for Shurrikhan's criticism of Riposte, it costs more than Zwerchhau and Redoublement as a penalty for failing to follow through. This could have similarly been accomplished more demonstrably with 30+10+10 costs, but 20+15+15 is far more lenient.

That's the thing, though. The punishment would already be sufficient, just due to (Enchanted) Riposte's very low ppgcd and longer-term rotational consequences, even if Enchanted Riposte cost the least.

By doubling down on that punishment/inefficiency, through both pathetic reward and heightened cost, they're really just making it a non-decision -- at best a trap that sits on your hotbar.

Why waste that space when you could instead have an integral, thematically-cohesive tool?


A good degree of punishment enhances complexity. When it squanders it (or its afforded cohesion or opportunities in a given kit), it's gone too far.

[Gruntler]

Same. RDM dungeon-running in practice has always been a lot... clunkier than it has any need to be (e.g., in terms of its guiding design philosophy). This should really mostly replace that with just further sheer glee.

And I'm coming from a standpoint where I already really LIKE RDM's AoE blaps in ShB. Pop sprint, run apace with the tank, dive in onto their first target, backflip FORWARD, and use that to start casting to get some resources during the run to the next pack and the wall... this is already a delight to do, and the ability to just straight go in with orbital death laser is going to be absolutely deeeeelightful.

Tanks are going to hate it though.

Sudden thought: What if the new 3-charge system means that Verfloly is no longer a combo action? I don't see a timer on those red lozenges, so that might actually mean we can end a pull with swordswishes but bank it into immediately Orbital Death Laser->crackWUBWUBWUB->Verbloosh once the next back is settled. Or just unload on a boss...

I just... my brain can't handle the quality of life on display here.

[Shurrikhan]

Sudden thought: What if the new 3-charge system means that Verfloly is no longer a combo action? I don't see a timer on those red lozenges, so that might actually mean we can end a pull with swordswishes but bank it into immediately Orbital Death Laser->crackWUBWUBWUB->Verbloosh once the next back is settled. Or just unload on a boss...

I just... my brain can't handle the quality of life on display here.

Now that, tanks would definitely hate.

[Rongway]

What if the new 3-charge system means that Verfloly is no longer a combo action? I don't see a timer on those red lozenges

I don't believe it's actually charges that get spent. It's just a visual indicator of how far into your combo you are. It's probably still restricted to 15s, and the sequence of actions must be exactly Moulinet-Moulinet-Moulinet-Verfinisher-Scorch-Verflowerlaser or the combo counter will reset (see job action trailer: combo counter resets on Jolt).

[Archwizard]

I don't believe it's actually charges that get spent. It's just a visual indicator of how far into your combo you are. It's probably still restricted to 15s, and the sequence of actions must be exactly Moulinet-Moulinet-Moulinet-Verfinisher-Scorch-Verflowerlaser or the combo counter will reset (see job action trailer: combo counter resets on Jolt).

Given that they explained that ranged weaponskills wouldn't interrupt the combo for melee and tank jobs, and they've done this slight revamp to our combo system, I wonder if that might also extend to us with Enchanted Reprise?

I know there's nothing to indicate it, but if they went one step further, "spend a little extra Mana to keep the combo going"... imagine being caught in a combo, having to backflip away from a boss but being able to reset the decay timer if you've banked a little extra Mana...

[Shurrikhan]

Given that they explained that ranged weaponskills wouldn't interrupt the combo for melee and tank jobs, and they've done this slight revamp to our combo system, I wonder if that might also extend to us with Enchanted Reprise?

I know there's nothing to indicate it, but if they went one step further, "spend a little extra Mana to keep the combo going"... imagine being caught in a combo, having to backflip away from a boss but being able to reset the decay timer if you've banked a little extra Mana...

I feel like that situation would more directly make the case for a second charge on CaC than for a combo extension via Reprise, at least if starting literally any action not part of the combo (or Reprise, in this case) continues to purge said combo.

...Also, when is Sprint going to stop purging Dualcast?