Red Mage: Potential adjustments

[Kalaam]

I would also like to feel like RDM becomes deeper at higher level.

[Gruntler]

Which jokes on them, because the game is really balanced around the lowest common denominator. Which is why the game is in the state it is now. It's a vicious cycle they refuse to acknowledge.

Bad players -> Bad Players complain, Good Players complain about Bad Players -> Square Enix makes game even easier -> Even Worse Players -> Even Worse Players complain, Good Players complain about Even Worse Players -> Square Enix makes game easier -> EXTREMELY bad Players -> etc.

Got news for you guy. Been playing this game since 2.0. This isn't exactly true. If it were, job performance would not be skill-based for all jobs (even the easy ones), job performance within a job wouldn't have such a wide gulf (no doing 2x the dps of the other guy in Pagl'than), everyone would be able to perform at a level where they could attempt savage or even extra (some people can't hack it). What you've seen is attempts to make the job more accessible, or job play less shit. Heavensward job design was shit. People need to accept that triple-weaving to do one ogcd was not good playfeel.

It's been like this with Healers since Heavensward, it started with Tanks in Stormblood, and now it's started with Dps in Shadowbringers.

Got news for you from the Healer side dudes, it's gonna get worse. A lot worse.

Yeah okay, Cleric Stance was ass though. You weren't skilled because you were triple weaving to get a heal off. Tanks weren't skilled because they forced the dps to play their role for them. That's not how... that's not how skill works.

Instead, the skill expression is different. Healers may be easier to pick up, but the actual healing side of the job is thiccer than it's ever been, and the cost for not managing that well are gcds--and by removing dots, and putting more power in the gcd-to-gcd nuke, healers got harder by increasing the punishment for not managing their ogcds well.

OGCD management for healing, by the way, wasn't a thing in ARR. So the current gameplay that healers revolve around--that skill expression--did not exist in ARR at all. So are you going to claim that Cleric Stance->Cast a heal->Cleric Stance is somehow skill?

Ugh.

[Rymi64]

I.e. Black Mage, the job has a very recognizable play rotation, but fundamentally plays different at every cap level.

I mean....people hate that BLM does that. It's like the only job that does that and ngl its kinda annoying it does

[Rongway]

I started playing Scholar originally because it was the closest we were ever going to get to true Red Mage in terms of Heal/Damage.

I would like some significant abilities that change the way the class is played at higher levels, rather than reworking the job.

I.e. Black Mage, the job has a very recognizable play rotation, but fundamentally plays different at every cap level.

I mean....people hate that BLM does that. It's like the only job that does that and ngl its kinda annoying it does

This is a fundamental problem with BLM that is most apparent once you see just how good BLM begins to feel at 72 and how great it feels at 80, and then you have to sync down even as high as 70. That BLM feels so markedly different between 70 and 72 is not something that should be lauded. That the 72-80 actions fix problems that BLM still has at 70 indicates that BLM's rotation over the course of leveling is not stable enough. No other job requires a different mindset--not to mention hotbar--at each cap level, and it's good that they don't.

[Mezzoforte]

I mean....people hate that BLM does that. It's like the only job that does that and ngl its kinda annoying it does

This is exactly why I will never play black mage even though I love the class.

As for Red Mage, I think the class would be 100% better if they just fixed a lot of the really stupid redundancy and added more flavor. There is no reason you should have separate buttons for fire/stone. There is no reason your melee combo should be 3 buttons since you will never hit them out of that order and unenchanted. There is no reason to have Impact be its own button. Fix that stupid stuff and add more flare, more flavor, more "red maginess." Add some weavable spells in between the melee combo. Add spells to the melee combo skills themselves. Something neat and interesting.

[FoxCh40s]

Got news for you guy. Been playing this game since 2.0.

And? I've been playing since 2.0 early access? Your point?

[FoxCh40s]

Yeah okay, Cleric Stance was ass though. You weren't skilled because you were triple weaving to get a heal off. Tanks weren't skilled because they forced the dps to play their role for them. That's not how... that's not how skill works.

Instead, the skill expression is different. Healers may be easier to pick up, but the actual healing side of the job is thiccer than it's ever been, and the cost for not managing that well are gcds--and by removing dots, and putting more power in the gcd-to-gcd nuke, healers got harder by increasing the punishment for not managing their ogcds well.

OGCD management for healing, by the way, wasn't a thing in ARR. So the current gameplay that healers revolve around--that skill expression--did not exist in ARR at all. So are you going to claim that Cleric Stance->Cast a heal->Cleric Stance is somehow skill?

Ugh.

Cleric Stance really wasn't that hard to manage. You merely had to pay attention; this is where the skill came in, knowing exactly what it looked like when someone was inevitably going to screw up and knowing how to fix it when it happened and clean up after. Cleric Stance was merely a gate to entry for healers, not the true complexity of the job back in ARR. Scholar had an easier time of it, as it was not punished for mismanaged GCD time, whereas White Mage absolutely could be. Quick step canceling spell, learning when to stop Dpsing to naturally regen MP, and knowing when the fight was lost when you were exhausted of resources. Healing back in ARR had limits that fights now don't, you had limited MP to Res as a White Mage.

I played White Mage from 2.0 to 2.3, and switched to Scholar for the better flow. Don't talk to me about ARR healing, because I am extremely aware of how it works.

Healers get punished for not managing oGCD's? What world are you living in? Healing in 14 is so insanely easy, that it might as well be non existent. It's literally all gear checks now.

Please check yourself before you wreck yourself my dude.

[FoxCh40s]

Also, the game is ABSOLUTELY balanced for the lowest common denominator when it comes to other roles. Tanks are now just DPS with Damage Reduction cooldowns, and Healers are so lobotomized that the Veteran community has either left the role, or just stopped playing entirely.

The only role, and I mean, ONLY Role that feels like any attention is given to it regularly is Dps.

[Garnix]

I don't think veterans complain about the "lobotomized healer role".
I think they complain about the content not being really suited to their current toolkit.
The only reason you feel DPS is getting more attention is because they have a much easier time fine tuning them, because it is basically just about adjusting numbers, or the size of a boss hitbox and this kind of things.
Adjusting healers or tanks, aside from their DPS abilities, usually have a bigger impacts on the game design.

[FoxCh40s]

I don't think veterans complain about the "lobotomized healer role".
I think they complain about the content not being really suited to their current toolkit.
The only reason you feel DPS is getting more attention is because they have a much easier time fine tuning them, because it is basically just about adjusting numbers, or the size of a boss hitbox and this kind of things.
Adjusting healers or tanks, aside from their DPS abilities, usually have a bigger impacts on the game design.

Go look at the Healer threads and the majority of complaints. We are complaining about exactly JUST that, that healers have been completely lobotomized.

Imagine if you would, if Monk was just Bootshine for your dps, and Rock Breaker was your only AoE.

Would anyone enjoy that? No.... I didn't think so. That's what's been done to us.

Red Mage having Vermedica would legit make me leave the Healing Role, and play Red Mage all the time.