Praetorium - Worst Experience Ever

[Awha]

You can run it again you know right? Very dramatic for no reason.

[Voidedge_Ragna]

The problem lies in the Meta and what players think of as Meta.

Why do players run MSQ Roulette? EXP and/or Tomes, if they see "new player" their happy for the bonus tomes, but since the dungeon is kind of wonky scaled ... you can likely do it with 4.
MSQ Dungeons were back in the day done as Ilv 50 (fresh in relic gear) BUT, they scale to 130 ilv which creates a problem similar to Cape Westwind, where you outscale content so hard zero f's are given.

The Duality of MSQ is something that can not be fixed w/o major adjustments here is why ...

First Version: All can skip cs, rewards are fairly low but the runs are fast.
Result: New players were legit rushed and did see nothing from the Dungeon

Second Version: CS are now unskipable, Reward was slightly upped but not worth it.
Result: New players were waiting for up to 5-6h to get a queue.

Third Version: Reward was upped to a point its not only worth it, but stupid to miss out on.
Result: Loads of players do it but want it done fast.

There are unwritten rules when you join DF, as you can not declare what you want to do in the run before joining it you are expected to do what the Meta expects. Like you can not queue in and now go "this is a RP run lets take our time" i mean you can, but the result is likely not in your favor. If you want to do runs your way, PF it and/or ask your FC/Friends.

So here we are ... at a Duty that has 8 slots, requires 4 ... which is so long and stale that players zone out ... but has rewards so good you kind of need to do it, this is why noone cares in there.
If you are left behind, the game will throw you into the boss fights, it also does not help that there are skipable things.

MSQ is just bad design, they learned from it ... you either accept it or you dont.

[Jin-]

Zero mechanics in those boss battles. Tbh you did not miss anything. And this has happened to each and one of us but veterans did not even get to watch cutscenes here

[Wyakin]

Biggest issue with MSQ roulette is that there’s only two of them.... there’s hundreds of dungeons which are MSQ mandatory to progress and yet these two are the only two? Maybe SE should add more to the roulette and make it a roulette rather than a coin toss. Expert “roulette” has the exact same issue.

[Morningstar1337]

Biggest issue with MSQ roulette is that there’s only two of them.... there’s hundreds of dungeons which are MSQ mandatory to progress and yet these two are the only two? Maybe SE should add more to the roulette and make it a roulette rather than a coin toss. Expert “roulette” has the exact same issue.

The issue is that Prae and Castrum are the ONLY dungeons that require 8 people to queve and that every other dungeon in the game are so short that people would perefer them to the pair.

Plus there is an overlap with Leveling (Satasha, Copperbell, Tam-Tara, Stone Vigil, Bralyflox, and everything from Sohm Al onward), X0, 80 and Expert (Keeper, ARF, Baelsar's Wall, Aumarot, Ala Mhigo, Anamensis, Skalla, etc) due to the MSQ requirement.

With Prae specifically there are a few lingering issues that affects new and lagging players. The first being the already mentioned skippable packs, but the second is that the Lifts can be activated without all 8 players, which means that at best it's an inconvenience for players to resummon the lift, but if their hardware and internet are not up to snuff, it can easily snowball into a uncrossable gap and face them to just wait at the bulwark (something I'd also argue is bad design, a point where players have to visit twice, and thus a point where players can wait for the others to "catch up"). I feel like adressing the lifts and the skippable mobs would go a way towards ensuring that newer players would not be left behind and be more consistent with their making the cutscenes unskippable.

[Avidria]

Biggest issue with MSQ roulette is that there’s only two of them.... there’s hundreds of dungeons which are MSQ mandatory to progress and yet these two are the only two? Maybe SE should add more to the roulette and make it a roulette rather than a coin toss. Expert “roulette” has the exact same issue.

Who would this help? MSQ roulette is better off separate because they're the only two dungeons in the game with multiple unskippable cutscenes, need 8 people, and have a massive experience payoff because of the aforementioned unskippable cutscenes. Heck, if you added other things to it, you'd probably just end up with more people bailing at the start... either because they didn't get Prae, which people already do in Castrum, or because they did get Prae, which is a significantly higher time commitment by default than most other dungeons in the game.

Frankly if they're going to do anything at all to these two dungeons, it should be to make them solo duties and take the hit of losing the huge exp roulette. These are two of the worst designed dungeons I've encountered in any MMO I've played

[Awha]

Also has other people have said you have not missed anything and I sense a strong sense of entitlement from you. Why is it do some people feel just because they are new people should bend over backwards to help them or be as accessible as possible? As I tell people in NN if you want a "proper" experience with those two MSQ encounters setup a party finder or run with friends and FC memebers. By no means should one expect a proper experience via DF cause even if people do not purposly skip the cutscenes the encounter will be over in 1 to 2 min tops if prople go hard on damage.

[MistakeNot]

Also has other people have said you have not missed anything and I sense a strong sense of entitlement from you. Why is it do some people feel just because they are new people should bend over backwards to help them or be as accessible as possible?

"Not rushing and leaving the newbie behind" is all the others would have needed to do. That's not exactly bending over backwards, more like common courtesy.

[Awha]

"Not rushing and leaving the newbie behind" is all the others would have needed to do. That's not exactly bending over backwards, more like common courtesy.

Expecting people to go slower then what they normally would then getting annoyed with the group because they did not tell them about the key, or to teleport in after the train of mobs to be is wanting people to bend over backwards in my opinion.

I get the roulette was meant for new players, but sadly due to the rewards it is a good mine of exp and tomes, so sadly most people that run it probably are not doing it to help me players. SE has learned their lesson which is good. I am also glad the player was able to avoid too many spoilers and can now experience it via the inn or a preformed group.

I know my stance is not the norm but for me whenever someone expects different behavior due to being new and gets annoyed with the group because the refuse to me that is wanting a group to bend over backwards due to simply being new. Sad reality is being new does not mean much of anything.

[AngelCheese77]

Also has other people have said you have not missed anything and I sense a strong sense of entitlement from you. Why is it do some people feel just because they are new people should bend over backwards to help them or be as accessible as possible? As I tell people in NN if you want a "proper" experience with those two MSQ encounters setup a party finder or run with friends and FC memebers. By no means should one expect a proper experience via DF cause even if people do not purposly skip the cutscenes the encounter will be over in 1 to 2 min tops if prople go hard on damage.

Sad what I read here. Essentially telling new players to play the game a certain way. Telling them to find a FC (when many don't want to) or starting a PF (which can take damn forever).

Is it wrong to say you are new and get a bit of help? I don't think so. Heck even I take a few minutes to explain things or say a few words. This is one of many reasons people leave the game.