Remove Treasure Chest Penalty from Savage - Restrict it per person

[missarielle]

Currently if I have cleared a Savage dungeon for the week then my mere presence in any other group penalizes them from receiving the full opportunity of upgrades.

What this creates is a huge divide between savage raiders who have a static or can raid early in the week and those who do not. It also creates a huge barrier of entry for anyone wanting to start the content late or when someone needs to be subbed into a static group.

I would love the ability to flex and help out friends when they need it without hurting them.

[DrWho2010]

then you raid with your other friends on an alt. or you wait until the savage tier is unlocked. that is how it has always been and it's what works.

[Vidu]

How would you restrict it per person?
You need to take into account that each person whos already cleared Savage for the week and cant roll on loot anymore, increases the chance for other people to get loot (since they'll be rolling against one - or more - less person). So, to keep it fair and even, we have the penalty right now - also to avoid people just power-gearing alts by dragging them through Savage with their static and grabbing all the loot.
So... how would you ensure that thats not happening?

A few things to keep in mind aswell:
1) We're lucky we can actually help out our friends at the cost of less loot - back in Coil you couldnt go back after clearing a floor.
2) This content is mainly meant for statics - so I dont think its unfair to reward them for their effort by making it so, that they get "better" loot-options (like, two chests, being able to distribute the loot amongst the group as they see fit...)
3) I know this is going to come off rude, but... anyone who starts late with Savage probably isnt that invested into that kind of content in the first place - or they've got a chance to get more invested the next time round.
4) Tokens are a thing - not as great as direct loot, yes. But its not like you're actually locked out from getting some Savage-gear if you give up on chests to get at least the clear.

So... until we find a better solution - one that prevents the power-gearing of alts and the unfairness of someone just getting all the loot by default - we've got this system. I'm always intrested in hearing peoples actual solutions for the problem, though! Just removing the loot penalty isnt the answer.

[ForteNightshade]

How would you restrict it per person?
You need to take into account that each person whos already cleared Savage for the week and cant roll on loot anymore, increases the chance for other people to get loot (since they'll be rolling against one - or more - less person). So, to keep it fair and even, we have the penalty right now - also to avoid people just power-gearing alts by dragging them through Savage with their static and grabbing all the loot.
So... how would you ensure that thats not happening?

To be fair, power-gearing your alts in a static is already incredibly easy nowadays. So very little would change in that regard. Content selling is what would benefit a lot more from lacking that restriction since you'd no longer needs a plethora of alts. Granted, I can't say if enough people buy content to warrant restricting it but I can at least appreciate why they want to limit that in some matter.

What I would like to see changed, if nothing else, is allowing upwards of two previously cleared players to not impact loot.

0-2 = Two Coffers
3-4 = One Coffer
5+ = No Coffers

I feel this makes for a decent compromise. You still restrict entry while letting some previously cleared players to help out as needed. I'd certainly make going into PF for fun more accessible because finding a group willing to sacrifice a coffer is not an easy task.

[Miminming]

I'd say force the one loot per person per week (like how normal work) and give another book so the people that don't get anything get 2 books... also decrease the waist book rate and maybe glove, foot, hat to 4 please...

[ItMe]

Savage isn't a race.
Each tier is current content for long enough that no one needs to rush through it unless they've been neglecting it.

And from a development perspective unlocking the restriction is just a bad idea. If people could run it until they were done they would and the Savage scene would be dead within the first month of release. Having the lockout is a way to keep the content "alive" longer.

[Liam_Harper]

Completely agree.

One way to handle it would be each chest having a 100% chance to spawn, but decreasing by 12.5% for each member who cleared that week. In addition, if you've cleared that week, you're ineligible to roll on loot. That means the more members who have the clear, the less chance of loot for the remaining players.

Savage was not "intended for statics" either. Statics are a player designed system to compensate for how incompatible Savage is with FC's and DF in its current form. There's nothing to lose from letting players help friends and FC members out if it doesn't affect the speed of loot acquisition.

[Rilifane]

I would love to some tweaks to the current system. I don't think it's bad per se nor should it get completely unlocked. Some form of penalty for having helpers is okay. At least we're able to kill bosses multiple times and help out; in most games you can't do that. And having people who already cleared speeds up getting the kill to join reclear parties by a mile. It's only fair that there is a trade off.
But maybe a combination of the current system and a chance system.

If the amoubt of eligable players is:
8 - 100% 2 chest
7 - 100% 1 chest, 75% 2nd chest
6 - 100% 1 chest, 50% 2nd chest
5 - 100% 1 chest, 25% 2nd chest
4 - 100% 1 chest
3 - 75% 1 chest
2 - 50% 1 chest
1 - 25% 1 chest

This way the system couldn't screw you over with RNG too bad nor could you get exceedingly lucky and fed 2 free chests.
Would it make gearing jobs easier if you have seven people willing to whack the same boss with you over and over again? Yes. Would the amount of work be worth it for most people? Nope. Even for RMT it's quite inefficient over offering a 2 chest kill because you spent so much more time for a relatively small chance.
Some statics might do that if they just recruited a new member and that person is lagging behind in gear but even then most wouldn't risk it because they wouldn't want to put hours into reclears to gear a new member they don't know yet.

[Hasrat]

then you raid with your other friends on an alt. or you wait until the savage tier is unlocked. that is how it has always been and it's what works.

"How it's always been" is never a good excuse.

[DrWho2010]

"How it's always been" is never a good excuse.

why fix what isn't broken? this is just plain old whining that people want more loot faster.