Revamping Dungeon Difficulty Adding a new Dungeon difficulty to the game and mechanic

[KageTokage]

The game really does need more optional four player content that's actually somewhat challenging.

The later floors of PotD/HoH and the Great Hunt (Extreme) are basically all we have in that regard.

[Morningstar1337]

I could stand to see some more harder 4 man content. I also think they should focus their dungeon efforts into having as new leveling dungeons of just level cap dungeons per patch. Y'know give a bit more variety and experiment a bit.

Or maybe have the options to do the 8 man raids as 4 man dungeons with tweaks to the numbers (so that tank swaps aren't needed and that 4 players can meet the enrage), no breaks between the battles, add some trash, etc (course this means that there needs to be a structure closer to Coils or Alex as opposed to that of Eden)

[MsQi]

Why is it anytime someone tries recommending new content it's just "Well go play this or that"" or some other snarky comment?

Difficulty levels are hardly new content. Sometimes a smidgen, and hard dungeons, in this game are somewhat new, with a different story. But mostly difficulty levels are a cheap way to make the players feel like there is more content than there really is.

[PyurBlue]

The game really does need more optional four player content that's actually somewhat challenging.

Yeah, I agree and think it should be a bit of priority.

I'd also like it to distance itself from the whole treadmill thing for the sake of longevity. As much as I do like EX and Savage, they can get repetitive. Something more dynamic would be a great change of pace. Random dungeon layouts, enemies, bosses, etc. Something that captures the feel of a first run even if you've done it a dozen times.

Difficulty levels are hardly new content. Sometimes a smidgen, and hard dungeons, in this game are somewhat new, with a different story. But mostly difficulty levels are a cheap way to make the players feel like there is more content than there really is.

From my perspective content should have a certain amount of difficulty and unpredictability in order to be interesting, otherwise it just becomes routine. Most of the game is really low on the difficulty scale, but if that existing content was brought up a couple of notches I think it would legitimately make for a better and longer lasting experience. There is more to it than just difficulty, but like I said, the majority of the game is tuned very low in that aspect.

[Stepjam]

While I'd be all for more interesting dungeons, I don't know what they'd do to make them worth coming back to repeatedly. People spend a lot of time on ex and savage because those fights are the game's fights at their purest. Dungeons tend to be mindless trash followed by bosses that tend to be simpler than any given trial.

I feel like if they wanted to make dungeons more interesting and worth actually repeating, they'd need to either introduce elements of RNG (maybe have multiple paths that are randomly chosen each run. No point having branching optional paths since after the first run, everyone will just go the most optimal route, that can be seen in ARR) or figure out a way to make the trash pulls more interesting, because they are the reason I generally don't like running dungeons after the first run. Trash pulls are just so dull, just repeat aoe attacks over and over again while avoiding enemy aoes which tends to not be super taxing. I'm sure healers have to work harder depending on the pull, but for DPS and tanks to a lesser extent, it's pretty brainless.

I think they should try experimenting with changing up the formula. Maybe try a dungeon without trash pulls, but instead trials sorta like the second boss in Bardam's Mettle. Maybe have fewer bosses in a dungeon but make the remaining ones more involved. Maybe have some enrages (soft or hard) that aren't a total pushover to beat. They don't need to push average parties to the edge by any means, but the enrage in dying gasp for instance was insultingly generous. Even at launch, you'd usually beat it before the boss even said his last line (largely because the free LB3).

Edit: Oh yeah, rewards would be important, preferrably beyond just weapons and armor and a minion. I know they aren't gonna have a mount every single dungeon, but goodies of some kind would be neat.

[MsQi]

From my perspective content should have a certain amount of difficulty and unpredictability in order to be interesting, otherwise it just becomes routine. Most of the game is really low on the difficulty scale, but if that existing content was brought up a couple of notches I think it would legitimately make for a better and longer lasting experience. There is more to it than just difficulty, but like I said, the majority of the game is tuned very low in that aspect.

Ok? I'm not sure how that relates to my comment. I'm just saying if you take the same content and make it more or less difficult, it's not new content. I don't care if they exist, it's just not new content. If you enjoy it, great! but it's the same thing Capcom did with Mega Man.

[Morningstar1337]

Edit: Oh yeah, rewards would be important, preferrably beyond just weapons and armor and a minion. I know they aren't gonna have a mount every single dungeon, but goodies of some kind would be neat.

If the armor/weapons are interesting, then that would encourage some longevity (at least untilyou have the pieces you want), but beyond that, have some sellable mats for high tier crafts, and maybe emotes, hairstyles and make up as well.

[ItMe]

Something more dynamic would be a great change of pace. Random dungeon layouts, enemies, bosses, etc. Something that captures the feel of a first run even if you've done it a dozen times.

If the next deep dungeon were more elaborate than the last two I think it would go a long way.
Also, good points about the treadmill for the sake of longevity, and I agree, but this is an MMO so I'm not sure how much more I can expect :/

[Tsaranoga]

From my perspective content should have a certain amount of difficulty and unpredictability in order to be interesting, otherwise it just becomes routine. Most of the game is really low on the difficulty scale, but if that existing content was brought up a couple of notches I think it would legitimately make for a better and longer lasting experience. There is more to it than just difficulty, but like I said, the majority of the game is tuned very low in that aspect.

The problem with that is the combat system. Even if they make them use their mechanics in random order, they are still the same mechanics. Even if they add some change to them, at some point it WILL be routine because you already know all its moves. This is true for everything in the game from story instances to raids, you can't really get much difficulty with this. Maybe it would be a little better but it won't be much.

[PyurBlue]

The problem with that is the combat system. Even if they make them use their mechanics in random order, they are still the same mechanics. Even if they add some change to them, at some point it WILL be routine because you already know all its moves. This is true for everything in the game from story instances to raids, you can't really get much difficulty with this. Maybe it would be a little better but it won't be much.

If the list of mechanics that the boss pulls from is long it would take a lot of runs to memorize everything. At some point it would still become routine but I'd welcome any improvement in longevity compared to doing the exact same thing every time. There is also room for variation outside of just changing the order of an otherwise fixed encounter, like what if sometimes the boss is a single spawn with full health while other times it might be two copies of the original boss with half or 75% health? The room its in could change as well, with variations in layout and perhaps things like environmental harzards. It might not make content last forever, but I think it becomes more realistic that it doesn't go stale before the next patch hits.