Thread: The potential problem with low level Roulettes in 6.0

Originally Posted by Jin-

I think 45 lvl combat speed should be the how game starts. I know so many people who drop the game because of the combat at under 50

I know that due to the changes that WHM gets in ShB, it is nearly a totally different job than at 50.
I really do not like playing WHM sub-50.

What to make Arum Vale dramatically more popular? Take it from 49 to 50. Dramatically better experience.

For WHM:
1 to 30 - tolerable
31 to 49 - unpleasant
50 to 59 - tolerable
60 to 69 - it’s ok
70 to 79 - much better
80 - awww yeaaaa!!!

I’m stating to think that they may need to do a level squish post 6.x. 7.x is when I expect some major overhauls to start in this game as the original plan for the game will have fun it’s course.

Also.

Stop saying low level combat is boring and then asking for changes that makes the game even more boring by removing actions or “combining” them into a single button.


You’re literally asking for Melee to have an “attack” button at that point which was deleted in version 1.0 because it’s boring.

Originally Posted by Daniolaut

Also.

Stop saying low level combat is boring and then asking for changes that makes the game even more boring by removing actions or “combining” them into a single button.


You’re literally asking for Melee to have an “attack” button at that point which was deleted in version 1.0 because it’s boring.

Oh, I am just stating my opinion when I say I consider the combat in the low level regions as boring. It is not meant as an attack to those that might enjoy it

But to your other points I lever suggested that actions should be removed or combined. My suggestion was that people should get there base, kit early on and only the flavours later. Personally I think it might even improve the performance of newcomers in higher levels because they would have more time to adjust to their class and rotation in a less than punishing enviroment But that is just my opinion, not more or less

I think they need to somehow address players at level 80+ spamming actions they learn at level 15 and below, before they try to “condense” anything else.

The game is already drastically more brain dead and easy at level 80, it doesn’t need to get any easier at lower levels just because you want to queue content you don’t actually want to do.

What they absolutely need to focus on is making low level content more difficult and engaging. Buffing jobs even more, or giving players access to harder hitting skills clearly isn’t and hasn’t been the answer.

People likely don’t make it post 2.0 because the game is extremely repetitive and is insanely trivial. Almost all the way until current expansion savage....

Yes, the lack of a full toolkit is an issue - I frankly think that classes should be largely complete by about level 30 (this is the same pacing WoW uses, and it feels right), with the occasional bump here and there as you progress.

However, IMO the bigger thing that turns new people off to this game is that FFXIV has its priorities WAY skewed compared to the norm when it comes to GCD vs. positioning. In most normal MMORPGs, the GCD is much faster, in some cases demanding a frenetic level of play in order to master a rotation. By contrast, positioning demands (how many AOEs or ground effects or whatever a boss throws) are greatly reduced. This - coupled with ubiquitous damage meters - allows players to better gauge personal performance based upon the numbers they are generating, rather than some nebulous "I dodged XYZ movement mechanic, so I'm awesome" criteria. More succinctly: players learn to play their classes well, instead of necessarily playing boss mechanics well.

I'm not trashing FFXIV - I am obviously here, playing the game. But the slow speed of the GCD paired with the almost silly "dance" players have to perform on every single boss (let alone every trash pull), plus almost no way (aside from a few clumsy meters that SE has prohibited) for players to measure themselves against each other, is a real turnoff for people who have become accustomed to the other way of doing things. Basically, FFXIV feels really, really slow and lazy for the first 45 or so levels, and you cannot expect people to just buckle down and fight through it to get to the "good stuff" (especially when I am not convinced that the raid/dungeon experience offered here - emphasis on movement and all - is actually superior to competing products [and, certainly, it's downright lame compared to newer combat such as what you see in Black Desert... though the rest of the BDO experience sucks]).

Originally Posted by TeraRamis

Yes, the lack of a full toolkit is an issue - I frankly think that classes should be largely complete by about level 30 (this is the same pacing WoW uses, and it feels right), with the occasional bump here and there as you progress.

However, IMO the bigger thing that turns new people off to this game is that FFXIV has its priorities WAY skewed compared to the norm when it comes to GCD vs. positioning. In most normal MMORPGs, the GCD is much faster, in some cases demanding a frenetic level of play in order to master a rotation. By contrast, positioning demands (how many AOEs or ground effects or whatever a boss throws) are greatly reduced. This - coupled with ubiquitous damage meters - allows players to better gauge personal performance based upon the numbers they are generating, rather than some nebulous "I dodged XYZ movement mechanic, so I'm awesome" criteria. More succinctly: players learn to play their classes well, instead of necessarily playing boss mechanics well.

I'm not trashing FFXIV - I am obviously here, playing the game. But the slow speed of the GCD paired with the almost silly "dance" players have to perform on every single boss (let alone every trash pull), plus almost no way (aside from a few clumsy meters that SE has prohibited) for players to measure themselves against each other, is a real turnoff for people who have become accustomed to the other way of doing things. Basically, FFXIV feels really, really slow and lazy for the first 45 or so levels, and you cannot expect people to just buckle down and fight through it to get to the "good stuff" (especially when I am not convinced that the raid/dungeon experience offered here - emphasis on movement and all - is actually superior to competing products [and, certainly, it's downright lame compared to newer combat such as what you see in Black Desert... though the rest of the BDO experience sucks]).

I think level 30 would be bit to early :3 My suggestion would be the absolut core until 30...for people to get used to...everything! For some ff14 is their first mmo And from 30- 50 adding the meat of the job And after that...subtleties like mastery traits

Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

I personally think level 30 is way too soon to throw everything at new players. Especially since FFXIV deals heavily with the class system still for the first 30 levels. In addition to it making no sense in terms of the lore (imagine an ARC pulling a bow randomly to use a BRD skill before they ever evolve into a BRD), it would also overwhelm baby players. FFXIV very heavily caters to people that aren’t as experience in MMOs. I know I was overwhelmed when I was new back in HW, as someone who had never played MMOs before. Having an entire toolkit thrown at me in the first 30 levels would have been nerve-racking lol.

I think level 50 is the bare minimum for your basic kit. Everything after that should build upon it in terms of either upgrades/masteries, or new capstone skills that feel rewarding to get at the end of a current expansion or level cap.



The strength aspect could easily be mitigated by mastery traits. At higher levels, you could gain mastery traits that boost your damage output. This actually used to be the case with the other jobs—they would get things like Dexterity Mastery for the physical ranged that would boost their base level of damage output.

Ah, they are called mastery traits >.< Yeah I meant them! That could also prevent high level players from facerolling through the content when they have their full toolkit. Old players would have the kit they are used to and new players would have the oppurtunity to learn it without it beeing too powerful. The strengh would be the leveling progress in the higher level regions instead of skills you have early on. I would like that idea