The potential problem with low level Roulettes in 6.0

**PyurBlue** · 06-28-2020 12:03 PM

[QUOTE=Berethos;5372948]I assume this would be via some sort of tiered change that kicks in at certain levels but doesn't apply past that?[quote]
It could be tiered or extrapolated at each level for a more continuous change. It depends partially on what's easier to code, which only SE knows.

Having 10%, 15%, and 10% again at end-game just to have them last longer would necessitate quite a bit more rebalancing of content past when Gladiator is relevant.

I don't think I understand what you're saying here. Values should only increase with level, not jump back and forth.

Which, in trying to solve one issue you've introduced another, in that now the person who levels Gladiator has to remember that the same abilities that did 20% for 20 seconds, etc., now do half that for double the duration (questionable use at that level, not sure when you'd need cool downs that last that long, 10% or otherwise) but only in a certain level range, and potentially adjust accordingly, introducing a wrinkle into learning their job that only exists in a specific scenario that isn't even relevant to end-game?

Skill durations aren't changing, the longer duration comes from the PLD having more defense skills than GLA. PLD with halved or thirded effectiveness Rampart, Sentinel, Sheltron vs GLA with normal Rampart for example.

Sure, the numbers look like they work on paper. Consider how that would feel to actually play - not so simple to solve, now is it?

That's why I didn't change duration. It's harder to feel the reduced effectiveness of the mitigation skills than a change in effect length, especially if those reductions are only imposed in specific content. A PLD with reduced skill effectiveness would just play normally.

**Berethos** · 06-29-2020 02:49 AM

Originally Posted by PyurBlue

Skill durations aren't changing, the longer duration comes from the PLD having more defense skills than GLA. PLD with halved or thirded effectiveness Rampart, Sentinel, Sheltron vs GLA with normal Rampart for example.

Your clarification here makes what you said previously make more sense in terms of the duration - the way I read it before it sounded like you were meaning the duration of all skills when combined, but rather on a per skill basis.

That being said - I still don't think it would feel good to play, assuming I'm understanding your suggestion here, that when playing on Paladin and being below a certain level, the damage reduction amount would be reduced to account for having more skills to use versus a Gladiator?

So Paladin would have Rampart, Sentinel, etc., which would last the same length, but do less damage reduction (like 10%, 15% below a certain level? And Gladiator's would do the normal intended amount, also at the same duration?

So assuming that is the correct interpretation...you still have the issue that you're asking the Paladin to play differently to survive the same packs...as it's ultimately the duration of the cooldown is only a portion of the consideration of when to use it, and honestly it's not at all the main consideration. Rampart is ultimately used not because it has a 20 second duration, but because it has a 20% damage reduction - that's the case in a trash pull and versus a tank buster. Most trash pulls at lower levels aren't going to benefit from being able to use more cooldowns in succession.

Instead it would almost certainly result in the Paladin feeling like they need to stack those cooldowns to achieve the same or similar damage reduction they had when they were lower level or they would feel squishier as a tank than the tank that comes in as a Gladiator with just a couple that do their intended full amount...which would still result in a different in how the job is played at higher levels, when the defensive cooldowns do their intended amount. You still end up introducing variations in how the job plays that make going into lower level content as a higher level player feel less good.

Your assumption that, in a same size pull, a Gladiator with a 20% Rampart and a numbers-synced Paladin with a 10% Rampart are both only go to press Rampart is faulty. The Paladin is, almost certainly, going to press an additional skill alongside that Rampart so they feel like the pull is like it was a Gladiator with a 20% Rampart.

That doesn't sound like it would be much fun to deal with, even if (again) the numbers look good on paper. I'd be having to press more buttons for the same effect, just because I'm a higher level going into a lower level dungeon.

In what gaming world does that sound fun?

**Jin-** · 06-26-2020 03:06 AM

I think 45 lvl combat speed should be the how game starts. I know so many people who drop the game because of the combat at under 50

**althenawhm** · 06-26-2020 03:24 AM

I dont really see the issue, as a healer my rotation is the same at level 15 as it is at level 80.

/sarcasm

**KDSilver** · 06-26-2020 03:36 AM

As many, I'd like the main rotation/skill being availaible at 50-60 max, and the rest being some extra flavor or trait.
Currently we have some weird thing when leveld sync.

AST Divination without Sleeve Draw, meaning you can't align it in the opener.
DRK best mitigation at lvl 70 and aoe combo at lvl 72.
WHM Rapture at 76, solace only as lily spender
Brd's lvl 50 rotation gap without minuet
Mnk lack of way to keep stack and lack of oGCD without form shift and chakra...
Dnc without florish

The list actually really long.
It doesn't feel good to be level synced with a lot of class.

I understand the priority is the efficency of class for the current max cap, of course.
But since roulette is one of the most run "conten/activyt" in the game, it'd be appreciated to have a better gameplay experience at lower level with consolidated toolkit.
At least, it's my opinion

**AngelCheese77** · 06-26-2020 03:38 AM

Originally Posted by Alice_Chrystal

Low level content is not exactly fun and i fear that especially the level 50 stuff and below will become an absolute chore to do when 6.0 comes out (when max. level likely will be 90). And there is the problem with new players. I witnessed a lot of people quitting because the combat is so slow at the start and only really gets starting at lvl. 60+.

My question would be what makes the combat slow for them. Did they come from a game or MMO with fast-paced combat like BDO?

Also, they have said many times they will be shortening ARR content by about 20 or so quests. That's a great start!

I had a couple of approaches in my mind but none of them are perfect or easy to execute:

- Let higher-level players keep their skills in low level content.

EverQuest 2 does this. Essentially all the skills are kept but the damage is significantly lowered to the player they mentor to. But I don't know how this game deals with skills, so it may be difficult to even do that.

- Remake old content

New mechanics, maybe different versions where a boss might change? It would be a ton of work for the devs though :/ And with the Idea of different versions/paths there could of course be those people that will leave if one is easier of faster than the other. There could of course be adjusted loot depending on the difficulty.

I think that's a good idea. They had done it in a way where the dungeons became one straight path later on instead of having branching ones for achievements. But people will always find an easier path or ways to do something.

- Dish out more skills at the start and distribute the rest with broadening gaps

Eh, skill bloat. I think it's fine right now. We can already have quite a number of levels before we get anything. We get a lot of skills in the beginning before it peters out to maybe every 2 or three levels before nothing.

**Alice_Chrystal** · 06-26-2020 04:14 AM