Let's talk about this games tanking philosophy...

[Navnav]

Firstly made a post about PLD before, and from what I understand, some people find it amazing, yet still I have no idea what they are seeing.
Within this game tanking seems somewhat skewed, like it doesn’t really have an identity, because apparently you should prioritise DPS over surviving as a tank. If I wanted to yolo swag bolo DEEPS, I would just play a dps. I find that tanking isn’t what tanking is in other games over here – as there is too much focus on maximising dps. I watch guides on how to play my tank class and the content creator is showing me dps rotations from start to finish. It’s WEIRD…

I don’t know of square made a mistake by letting players think tanks should be dps that just get healed or they believe healers should heal more (lets not get started on healers). I just think it’s all so silly and detrimental.

Imagine playing the posterboy of tanks, but you within your job only ONE ready to go active cd when go into a fight. Yes, ONE. Don’t let anyone tell you otherwise, because you have some time until you can use sheltron with your oath gauge, meaning you just have sentinel and that’s it outside of your role actions. Yet to me, I felt that (at 78+) you should be actively using clemency with requi as a strong source of mitigation, because again, you have so little in the way of mitigation, unless you like RNG… But imagine to my horror, that the community doesn’t think you should use your insta cast high potency heal to survive, you should just YOLO SWAG BOLO DEEPS! And then you are frowned upon for using your SURVIVABILITY TOOLKIT AS A TANK! You can’t make this crap up.

I can only imagine in WoW, you gave any Tank a high potency heal and said “yeah but don’t use it though, you need to damage”, the eye rolling would be immense. It’s like having a Ferrari and living next to a race track but never driving it. It’s retardation.

Anyway, I AM going to use clemency after requi and HOLD requi as a defensive for clemency use, I will only hit damaging abilities if I am comfortable. Because to me, clemency SHOULD be part of your tanking rotation. PERIOD.

[Wyndam]

Meanwhile, I, as your scholar healer, am sitting on a full stack of Aetherflow with a recitation+excogitation on you going "WTF, do more damage!" Healers are rarely tested on healing throughput in this game and, in general, have more than enough healing if you're using your other cooldowns appropriately.

Yeah, clemency is part of your toolkit and yeah, you should use it when you need it. If I'm on my feet you don't need it.

[aodhan_ofinnegain]

a new thread and more crying.

Once you've actually bothered to do end game then come back and try to give an opinion. So far you seem to lack quite extensively in any experience to give any semblance of an informed opinion. Further this isn't WoW, this is FFXIV, it's own game with it's only set of rules and how to best perform in in each role is by doing your rotation and doing as much dps as possible. The only difference here, is if this was WoW, you would get some very toxic responses, while in xiv there is quite a lot of censorship and politeness. Just because that censorship is here doesn't mean you won't be laughed out of the place for making silly statements like "I AM going to use clemency after requi and HOLD requi as a defensive for clemency use".

In end game that will get you kicked so fast out of a party, because failing to contribute to the dps check is only holding you party back for no reason other that being petty, selfish and ignorant of others time. Like I'd be like why take this tank spamming Clemency instead of the tank that's actually trying to clear. End of the day if you don't like this game go back to WoW, because if trying to push what DPS we can since the fights are so scripted that you can plan cooldowns out for an entire fight, the only thing end game tanking has to focus on is DPS, isn't you cup of tea, then you're playing the wrong game.

If anything describing Clemency as "It’s like having a Ferrari and living next to a race track but never driving it" is woefully incorrect, more like a Honda Civic, and slapping a Ferrari logo on it and pretending it's actually a Ferrari. Clemency has it's uses, and sure spam away in solo content to your hearts content, but, having to sacrifice GCDs, MP and DPS just to use it is nowhere close to being a Ferrari lmfao.

As I already mentioned planned cooldowns, most bosses don't do tankbusters until around the 25 second mark, so crying over it not being up immediately, yet it takes 22.4 seconds to build 50 gauge, you won't be short, and in the case of earlier busters you still have rampart and sentinel and Hallowed Ground, not like you're stuck for options. Sure you need to Auto attack to generate gauge, so in downtime you might miss out a few points of gauge, but as said before in you other post, 99% of the time I've never found it to be an issue.

In short not everything you do in WoW is transferrable into ffxiv and how roles are played, By no means are they perfect but they are as they are right now what we have, but until fight encounter design changes active mitigation is a pipe dream outside of what we got, and with predictable damage as it is there is like very little reason to choose any option over more DPS.

XIV devs allowed for this tank philosophy to develop in the second expac through it's severe dps checks during Gordias, which created the meta that brought about DPS oriented tanks, and it was mostly a well received and encourage change for tanks. It created what we have today and while devs have tried various methods to reduce tank dps output, they never discouraged DPS oriented tanks.

[Recon1o6]

as we healers and retired healers can tell you, we heal little enough as is. 70-80% of our casts in most duties is spent killing the button or key that has broil/malefic/glare bound to it. Plus using your ridiculously strong clemency is a bit insulting since it goes off before heals usually come in so it implies you don't trust your healers, in other cases, it can be a waste of healing resources.
check the healer forums if you want a more detailed explaination

your tank CD's used to be 3 each. a Light cd, a heavy cd, a medium specialised cd and an immunity and you rotated between the 3 and occasionally the immunity. But tanks are so sturdy now and incoming damage is so low and infrequent that the light cd is all you need in all none extreme/savage/ultimate content.

The focus on dps comes from A3s back in heavensward. Because SE made the dumb mistake of allowing people without high enough Ilvl to enter if in a pre built party, it meant everybody had to throw out as much dps as possible to clear the dps checks when in fact their gear was the problem because they were underlevelled. Said train of thought unfortunately persisted in the NA mentality, not helped by the fact that they design fights to have enrage timers unbeatable without healer/tank damage taken into account.

Over in Japan they focus more on respecting mechanics and not uptime. Their clears are often more frequent as they take fewer risks, but their actual clear times are lower.
Europe is somewhere between the two


finally, this is not wow its ff14. don't bring that up, it risks turning legitimate questions into a cesspit

[Liam_Harper]

Anyway, I AM going to use clemency after requi and HOLD requi as a defensive for clemency use, I will only hit damaging abilities if I am comfortable. Because to me, clemency SHOULD be part of your tanking rotation. PERIOD.

There's no reason to be stubborn because Enix didn't design tanks properly. There is very little damage intake in this game, healers have an incredibly good toolkit and the bulk of the tanking toolkit is dps rotation and oGcd defensives. That's just how it is. I agree it's a mess, I'd like to see tanking being a battle of survival, but it's not and if you choose to punish your group by following a vision that doesn't exist, you're a bad player. Sorry to be blunt, but the tank style you want isn't in the game. Roll a dps. It's not the group's fault the game is designed this way.

Clemency is an emergency heal. For example if your healer is terrible or dead or you're making a massive pull and the dps are way too slow and you burnt every CD. It's completely wasted if you just spam it randomly. You're wasting your healers free oGcd's at the cost of your damage.

Even in WoW tank damage is a thing. It's just designed better, where bosses hit much harder and defensives are tied to damaging abilities. So you're constantly playing a survival game with meaningful choices (although they wrecked a lot of that in BFA). But if you had a channeled heal that did 0 damage and nothing hurt you enough to need it, decent WoW tanks wouldn't touch it.

[Navnav]

as we healers and retired healers can tell you, we heal little enough as is. 70-80% of our casts in most duties is spent killing the button or key that has broil/malefic/glare bound to it. Plus using your ridiculously strong clemency is a bit insulting since it goes off before heals usually come in so it implies you don't trust your healers, in other cases, it can be a waste of healing resources.
check the healer forums if you want a more detailed explaination

your tank CD's used to be 3 each. a Light cd, a heavy cd, a medium specialised cd and an immunity and you rotated between the 3 and occasionally the immunity. But tanks are so sturdy now and incoming damage is so low and infrequent that the light cd is all you need in all none extreme/savage/ultimate content.

The focus on dps comes from A3s back in heavensward. Because SE made the dumb mistake of allowing people without high enough Ilvl to enter if in a pre built party, it meant everybody had to throw out as much dps as possible to clear the dps checks when in fact their gear was the problem because they were underlevelled. Said train of thought unfortunately persisted in the NA mentality, not helped by the fact that they design fights to have enrage timers unbeatable without healer/tank damage taken into account.

Over in Japan they focus more on respecting mechanics and not uptime. Their clears are often more frequent as they take fewer risks, but their actual clear times are lower.
Europe is somewhere between the two


finally, this is not wow its ff14. don't bring that up, it risks turning legitimate questions into a cesspit

Thanks for the response, it really shed some light as to how the game became what it is. I appreciate that a lot.

[Lucy_Pyre]

Anyway, I AM going to use clemency after requi and HOLD requi as a defensive for clemency use, I will only hit damaging abilities if I am comfortable. Because to me, clemency SHOULD be part of your tanking rotation. PERIOD.

This is so cringe. If you unironically do this in any content EX or up you are legitimately trolling & griefing. Below EX/savage I wouldn’t call it quite griefing but still giga cringe and the epitome of bad play & mentality. Healers heal for so much and non-savage content does so little damage that there really is absolutely zero excuse for this kind of play.

[elioaiko]

What is it with people comparing this game to Wow? They're so different with very different philosophies on tanking and healing.

You wanna get mad about the whole DPS focused style for healers and tanks then you can blame SE for designing content that encourages it.

SE can run in circles about how tanks and healers are not required to DPS but with the way they have the fights, a totally different story. And even they know this but don't want to admit as they released GNB, a DPS centric tank.

Damage is so super predictable in this game, so using oGCDs to protect yourself is obvious what you should do. You see a tank buster being casted and you use one of the 3 defensive cooldowns and bam survived.

Also your bit about Clemancy spam is gross. I can understand if you're doing a mega pull in a dungeon, need to proc Divine Veil, or have a bad healer but just refusing use it for it's actual purpose is pretty bad.

Like the first post said, how about you actually get a grasp of how to TANK in FFXIV, keyword being FFXIV. Stop thinking this game is something it's not.

[Lucy_Pyre]

Anyway, I AM going to use clemency after requi and HOLD requi as a defensive for clemency use, I will only hit damaging abilities if I am comfortable. Because to me, clemency SHOULD be part of your tanking rotation. PERIOD.

To continue on from my prior post, now that I'm not half asleep. As a WAR main who omnitanks & also plays some SCH for fun, if I had a tank with this mindset when I was healing then, well, I'm going to let you heal yourself; period. If you think that I'm incapable of doing my job of keeping you alive then that, to me, tells me that you want to play both tank and healer. In which case I am more than happy to perma-DPS and spend all my Aetherflow on Energy Drain exclusively. Although I'm fairly confident when I say that I'm certain if you were to die because I let you be your own healer that your first and immediate reaction to your death would be to flame me for not perma-healing you, since I bet that's what you think a healer is there for, right? To keep you at 100% at all times.

[Mindiori]

''Because SE made the dumb mistake of''

Heh. Think I've just found the winner for my description of 'accessibility adjustments'. Thanks.

Tanking philosophy? As with Healer balance, you've assumed they even have one. ShB speaks volumes, so you don't need to.