Calamities explained

[SnowVix]

I think they're finally feeling threatened. It was mentioned that Lahabrea's repeat body hopping had led him to insanity, and I have to wonder if perhaps Elidibus might be feeling the onset of that, too. Not to mention that there's now a Warrior of Light/Darkness who has proven capable of killing multiple Ascians (2 in the MSQ plus the Ascians of the Chalice in SMN 60). They accidentally started a war that threatened them, so now they're trying to move the timetable up so they don't lose everything.

[thegreatonemal]

Having done a small amount of project management myself, this is the most unbelievable part of the universe of XIV. That a project could be so well organized that the only failures were brought about by incomplete information on the first attempt, and direct intervention on the most recent, and the other 7 all happened perfectly.

Its not too unbelievable when you tell none of your potential enemies why and how you are doing anything. Our ignorance was their greatest strength. Then Emet spilled all the tea.

[Naria]

I think they're finally feeling threatened. It was mentioned that Lahabrea's repeat body hopping had led him to insanity, and I have to wonder if perhaps Elidibus might be feeling the onset of that, too. Not to mention that there's now a Warrior of Light/Darkness who has proven capable of killing multiple Ascians (2 in the MSQ plus the Ascians of the Chalice in SMN 60). They accidentally started a war that threatened them, so now they're trying to move the timetable up so they don't lose everything.

I'm being pedantic here but technically the WoL only killed Emet-Selch. Lahabrea was killed by Thordan (although you could argue the WoL helped) . Nabriales and Igeyorhm and the various suits Acians should all be shards/reflections that were raised up to their posts, and could be replaced the same way. We've seen this happen with Emmerololth I believe, since Emmerololth died in 5.0 at the Isle of Val but we see a full set of overlords later on in the ARR patch series.

I do wonder how the process of creating an Asican from a reflection works. Is is something that Elidibus can do himself? Or does it take all three of the unsundered convocation members to do so? If he can't do it on his own, that would explain the added sense of urgency after Heavensward and his switch in attitude towards the WoL.

[HakkyounoTenshi]

I think they're finally feeling threatened.

There is a good point to the above statement. As cliche as it sounds, the game has changed and now Elidibus and the other Ascians are having trouble keeping a hold on the strings and may have lost control completely.

Two of the three Unbroken have been killed (Lahabrea and Emet-Selch) and they might not be replaceable because unlike the Broken Ascians, they haven't existed as shards.

The current WoL is fully capable of killing Ascians, but (possibly) more important is the fact that the WoL is the reincarnation of an Ascian, and has fused with Ardbert who was the WoL's counterpart AND another shard of the Ascian soul. We don't know how that changes the WoL (if it changes things at all). And said soul is implied to be the 14th and final Ascian Convocation member (the Ascian Order trying to bring about rejoinings are the other 13) who did not support the creation of Zodiak and refused to aid in the summoning.

And then there's Zenos...who's a loose cannon with an incredibly strong (and STABLE) artificial Echo, Ascian powers, and his own agenda.

Elidibus flat out says he can't predict where things are going and implies that for right now, he's just hanging on for the ride.

[Naria]

Emet-Selch does state that you don't have to be a shard of one of the original Ascians to be "raised up", just that the process is just easier if you are.

I agree with you and Snow, Elidibus is desperate. It doesn't take a WoL to kill an Ascian, Galuf and Gaius both have shown that. Ardbert and co killed Loghrif and Mitron on the First as well. Emet-Selch's dialogue implied the ascended Ascians were considered somewhat expendable and that it wasn't rare for them to die. If after Lahabrea's death, however, every Ascian that is killed can on longer be replaced it does explain his desperation to kill the WoL and reset the clock as it were. With the WoL's death (and that the Scions) the knowledge that the Scions have gathered on the Asicans would no longer be actionable and would hopefully be lost.

Eli goes from, "hey isn't the WoL interesting with how gifted they are with the Echo" and "we should be on the same side" in the ARR patch story to personally trying kill them in the Stormblood patch story. So whatever changed his attitude had to happen between those two points. From what we know, Lahabrea's death does seem like a good candidate, but since the WoL wasn't the direct culprit it makes me wonder if there is more significance to it beyond simply the death of one of the unsunderd Ascians.

I could be overthinking it though.

[HakkyounoTenshi]

Emet-Selch does state that you don't have to be a shard of one of the original Ascians to be "raised up", just that the process is just easier if you are.

I missed that part. I thought you basically had to be an incarnation (how ever diminished) of an Ascian to be awaked and "raised up" into said Ascian. But what I really meant about Lahabrea and Emet-Selch is that because they survived the Sundering intact, they might not be able to be restored post death because (I think) they exist differently than the other Ascians and I don't know if they can be "raised up" in the manner that the broken ones are.

If after Lahabrea's death, however, every Ascian that is killed can on longer be replaced it does explain his desperation to kill the WoL and reset the clock as it were. With the WoL's death (and that the Scions) the knowledge that the Scions have gathered on the Asicans would no longer be actionable and would hopefully be lost.

It hadn't actually occured to me that with the death of Lahabrea, they might not be able to raise up more Ascians. If you needed all three Unbroken for whatever ceremony/ritual it takes, then the Ascians got screwed (and by Lahabrea's own dumbassery, no less).

It would also explain why Elibius went from "hey, let's work together. I really don't want the world destroyed" (although I do figure that the truce Elidibus was trying to propose was for the dual purpose of trying to confuse and manipulate the Scions as well as keeping the certain Ascians mechanications of some of the other Ascians from going too far) to "WoL must die" Elidibus would be keen on trying to kill the WoL and the Scions to try and reset the board (to go back to my earlier analogy) when he decided that they were too much of a hassle to manipulate the way the he wanted.

[SnowVix]

And then there's Zenos...who's a loose cannon with an incredibly strong (and STABLE) artificial Echo, Ascian powers, and his own agenda.

I hadn't even thought of the Zenos factor. He doesn't seem to be keen on helping the Ascians, but he's also definitely keen on hornymurdering the WoL, so he's an entirely separate 3rd side for Elidibus to deal with. Plus with Emet-Selch (and his line) out of the ruling picture (Zenos explicitly stated he had no interest in doing any ruling), Garlemald is not going to be as easily molded by the Ascians any more.

[Vyrerus]

I'm being pedantic here

Just because an Ascian post could be refilled, doesn't mean that an Ascian wasn't killed. The WoL has killed three Ascians in the MSQ, and is partially responsible for Lahabrea's death, since he weakened him to such an extent that he was powerless to resist Thordan. More Ascians added to the belt loop if you do the SMN line, as already said.

As for how folk are raised to the station, I imagine it would involve selecting a suitable, powerful individual with The Echo, and then bringing them before Elidibus so they may be tempered by Zodiark or bestowed the knowledge and power that befits their station.

[MrThinker]

Just because an Ascian post could be refilled, doesn't mean that an Ascian wasn't killed. The WoL has killed three Ascians in the MSQ, and is partially responsible for Lahabrea's death, since he weakened him to such an extent that he was powerless to resist Thordan. More Ascians added to the belt loop if you do the SMN line, as already said.

As for how folk are raised to the station, I imagine it would involve selecting a suitable, powerful individual with The Echo, and then bringing them before Elidibus so they may be tempered by Zodiark or bestowed the knowledge and power that befits their station.

When it came to raising the shards of the original members, i believe something was said about restoring their memories as convocation members.

[Jandor]

Having done a small amount of project management myself, this is the most unbelievable part of the universe of XIV. That a project could be so well organized that the only failures were brought about by incomplete information on the first attempt, and direct intervention on the most recent, and the other 7 all happened perfectly.

I'm just guessing here, but I suspect the amount of time they have available to line these things up and get them right is fairly generous.

It all feels very fast from our perspective, but it has been something like a hundred years on the First IIRC, and the First didn't seem to show any real signs of fixing itself when we got there, even given that large passage of time.

Presumably if we had come up with some way of stopping the Empire that didn't involve traveling to other dimensions, then the Ascians could have just kept the First in that state till they came up with some other plan on the Source to trigger the calamity.