Healers who rescue pull tanks into mobs.

[Nanchi]

yeah i also do that but sometimes i fear the other scenarios where a) they just don't know more mobs are ahead that you can aggro . b) they fear i can't heal enough. i'm sorry if i'm sounding silly but no one ever flamed for those rescues i'm really trying to understand i swear.

But if you say you want to pull big everytime at the start of the dungeon then scanario b) will not happen and scenario a) is so incredibly rare with our current dungeon structure that it's also unlikely to happen that they don't see the next trash pull.

The thing that makes rescuing tanks into the next trash toxic is the fact that you take away control from a player who can decide for themselves if they want to pull more or not. It's /their/ role to take aggro, no one should be able to physically force that against their will. That's literally the only issue I have.

[Goji1639]

It not the assumption that everyone would do it. It's not knowing who can and can't be rescued at any given time. Even if the devs were to put in some kind of indicator, it is more work than is necessary. Again, if you don't want to be rescued, then learn and do the mechanics of the encounter.

As mentioned earlier, it is more of a communication skill than anything. During an encounter, your healer can't type out that they need you stand somewhere quickly enough, nor is it guaranteed the player will see it in the chat log.

Personally, I am waiting for the complimentary skill that also allows me to push a player a from me.

They can literally just place some kind of debuff indicator next to the persons name in the party list. I don't think noticing that on the list you stare at for a good chunk of the run anyways will make Rescue "too much work" to be worth it.

I get that there's a handful of extremely specific situations where it could conceivably be useful, and in the other 99% of the game it's just the perfect away to annoy and yank people around if they're not playing exactly the way you want them to. So, let everyone else decide if you can Rescue them, and if/when they die to mechanics you could've saved them from it's on them.

[Quintessa]

Why would you leave? I don't really see rescue as a toxic spell, i'm trying to help you clear faster and if we fail it's on me, could you please explain why you find it... offensive? like when i use it i'm not thinking anything bad about the tank, since i've never played it i'd like to know what's the bad thing about being pulled near more mobs. like i'm legit trying to think about what could make it worse for the tank but unless the mobs spam a lot of aoes they have to dodge to make the pull possible i don't really see any other reason.

I don't like it being done to me because I don't like how it feels like I'm being controlled/forced to be/think/play a certain way. I've said in another thread that it's ok to pull 30 mobs me into me lol, but DON'T pull me into 30 mobs. I don't single pull an entire dungeon, some pulls are just nasty and my body can't handle it even with CDs unless the healer wants to be a curebot. So I will keep certain mobs separate, like the bigger hard hitting mobs, bunch those up with baby mobs and I feel like wet torn tissue paper that was still too much to be flushed. 10 baby mobs? Yeah you bet I'm gonna go for it.

i'm really trying to understand i swear.

I believe you. Your mindset will probably change once you begin tanking. I haven't healed yet(only unlocked the one I will level), maybe mine will too, who knows, but I certainly wont rescue tanks into more mobs.

Edit: Perhaps my style revolves around my body handling it and making sure the healer isn't being stressed out with healing me.

[BunYulia]

I don't like it being done to me because I don't like how it feels like I'm being controlled/forced to be/think/play a certain way. I've said in another thread that it's ok to pull 30 mobs me into me lol, but DON'T pull me into 30 mobs. I don't single pull an entire dungeon, some pulls are just nasty and my body can't handle it even with CDs unless the healer wants to be a curebot. So I will keep certain mobs separate, like the bigger hard hitting mobs, bunch those up with baby mobs and I feel like wet torn tissue paper that was still too much to be flushed. 10 baby mobs? Yeah you bet I'm gonna go for it.

ok i kinda see the point now thank you, i'll try to shut down this bad habit of mine.

[MelodyCrystel]

[...] I don't really see rescue as a toxic spell, i'm trying to help you clear faster and if we fail it's on me, could you please explain why you find it... offensive? [...]

Can I be honest...? The part of the sentence I have underlined is something a troll would say while playing the coy-card.
->The faster-argument is furhermore pretty common for impatient people, so you literally dug a hole with this phrase from my point of view. Avoid this phrase, no matter how well-meant it is.

If tanks don't do big pulls - whether or not you asked them for getting more monsters - do the only reasonable thing: Attacking mobs.
->Because useless overhealing (a ka if you happen to be one of these healers who refuse to hit stuff) won't help anybody at this point.

i'm sorry if i'm sounding silly but no one ever flamed for those rescues i'm really trying to understand i swear.

Uff, makes me glad our servers don't share a datacenter anymore, because I'd notice your intention and would therefore bite you for making me your yo-yo. I saw already too many troll-heals as if I could react relaxed to this issue.

Things put plainly: Rescue is meant to get people in time out of AOE (or into a stack). If you try to force your pace onto a tank without even talking to them, I count that as abusing the skill.

[Avidria]

So umh, i've started playing a month ago, main healer at the moment and i always use rescue if i see the tank not pulling enough even if they are barely taking any damage. here are my reasons
1) i don't think it's toxic, we are a team, i'm telling you there are more mobs to grab if i'm doing it, trust me! (example: the great gubal library dungeon just before the final boss, some tanks don't pull under the stairs but they stop before, that's where i rescue...)
2) faster dungeon, let's use the team Aoe damage!
3) i've never played tank but getting enemy aggro doesn't seem really hard so i don't think it's a problem?

i always say i prefer big pulls at the start of dungeon, i don't really think it's up to the tank because it's all about how fast the dps can kill the adds while the healer keeps the tank up.

also rescue is such a cool skill to save people first timing boss mechanics in dungeons or raids

Thing is, I don't trust you because I don't know you. If I'm not ahead pulling more, there's generally a reason for it - in pugs for example, I generally pull 2-3 packs depending on the dungeon and wait to pull more later on once I'm sure the healer can actually handle it. There have been plenty of dungeons where even that was too much, and even using cooldowns wasn't enough to keep me alive.

If you want bigger pulls, say something. If you wanna just yank me around the dungeon without taking the two seconds it takes to say "you can pull bigger," all that's gonna do is annoy me tbqh.

Granted I also haven't had any real issues with rescue. If I'm tanking, I'm generally queuing with people I know anyway, and it doesn't bother me as much because I know my friends know what they're doing. If I die we can laugh about it in voice chat :P pug healers, though? I don't know you, I don't know your skill level, and I don't know your intentions. Speak up. It's clearer and less likely to irritate people.

[Mavrias]

That will never fly, and might as well delete the skill if they did this.

If players really don't want to be rescued, then what is really going to decrease the chance of it happening is doing the mechanics. If you go into a fight for the first time or are still learning it, don't be surprised if the healer pulls you into their bosom. Players need to understand that the majority of the time, the healer's intentions are good when they rescue you. They are not trying to spite you, or jackup your rotation. They want you to live and they are trying to take care of you.

Being rescued should be a small detriment to a seasoned DPS player who deals with breaks in their rotation all the time because this is what bosses do so the 95% or higher of the damage you cause to dummies isn't so easily transitioned into an actual fight.

Trust me folks, this skill isn't going anywhere, nor will players be given an option to negate it.

Your misunderstanding. I want it to be a toggle because while I trust my healers in my static and even to a degree savage/extreme PF pugs to use the skill only as needed, duty finder healers tend to be trigger happy with it regardless of their intentions.

You may think you are helping me, but quite frankly I'm aware I'm standing in an AoE. I'm doing it to get uptime, I know it won't kill me, i've used my mitigation, I've got my own self heals I'm planning on using, and I know the next raid wide won't kill me because of it. By rescuing me, your causing me to lose dps, potentially royally mess up my rotation, and/ or waste my cooldowns.

The skill has its uses, but outside of higher level content, those uses become fewer and fewer. It does not hurt you for it to be a toggle, especially if they give it some sort of indicator in the party list.

[dangadget]

I'm curious for those that think this sort of behavior is fine, would they object if tanks had a way to force certain behaviors on everyone else in the group?
What if they had a button that would cancel whatever else the healer was doing and make them cast an AoE heal?
What if they had a button that would cancel whatever single-target DPS rotation someone was doing and make them start doing an AoE attack instead?

It's ridiculous of course, but its that same kind of mindset of no-stop-what-you're doing-and-do what-I-want-you-to that makes Rescue pulling so obnoxious

[BunYulia]

Can I be honest...? The part of the sentence I have underlined is something a troll would say while playing the coy-card.
->The faster-argument is furhermore pretty common for impatient people, so you literally dug a hole with this phrase from my point of view. Avoid this phrase, no matter how well-meant it is.

Now, taking the "Rescue is toxic used like this" (i understand now) argument aside, i think most people doing dungeon want a smooth,fast run and spending 30minutes doing a dungeon that can be cleared in half of that by putting in a bit more effort doesn't sound bad. (i had to google what "playing the coy-card" means because English is not my first language as you surely noticed! so sorry for any mistakes)

If tanks don't do big pulls - whether or not you asked them for getting more monsters - do the only reasonable thing: Attacking mobs.
->Because useless overhealing (a ka if you happen to be one of these healers who refuse to hit stuff) won't help anybody at this point.

I am not that kind of healer i try to optimize my dps while keeping the team alive so do not worry about it, but i think it's obvious to say that DPS with good aoes will clear much faster with higher group of enemies with or without the dps i could add by having to heal less because of the smaller pulls.

Things put plainly: Rescue is meant to get people in time out of AOE (or into a stack). If you try to force your pace onto a tank without even talking to them, I count that as abusing the skill.

Ok that sounds bad , fair enough as i said i'll make an effort to stop using rescue like that.

Thing is, I don't trust you because I don't know you. If I'm not ahead pulling more,

Yeah that's a fair point too...

[Awha]

Getting aggro is not difficult in the slightest, being pulled into mobs is no excuse to let a healer die. Finish the pull then hash it out after. Communication is key as many have said, if a healer pulls you into mobs after the pull bring it up. I mean I get the fear if the pull is successful then the group might ask what the big deal is and may lead to a disagreement which is understandable.