Just feels like bad design

[Crushnight]

This is just stuff that bothers me as it feels like SE's intended way of doing things baffles me.

So;
-Miasma, learned at lv6 on Arcanist use for 24 levels become Scholar and forget it ever existed, so dumb down things the moment you become a healer something you should have already fully gotten used to long before being a Scholar. I might've been ok if this was added later to not overwhelm people on the initial switch from dps to healer but full removal just feels bad.
-Fester, while originally a Summoner skill is now an Arcanist skill at lv 18 to teach spending aetherflow stacks, so for 12 levels you learn to gain stacks and spend them, then you go Scholar forget everything about aetherflow stacks for 15 levels, like what?!, that just looks silly a player has learned about a core mechanic of the job already but you with old it for 15 levels, why?
-Bane, you literally get this just before being able to become a Scholar, why is not available, is spreading 1 DoT really that bad for Scholars to do come on SE.
-Diurnal Sect, why is this glorified button bloat for 4 levels, why isn't it tied with Aspected Benefic or Aspected Benefic tied to it, 4 levels of a do nothing stance looks stupid and sounds stupid.
-Undraw, with the current card system this is just button bloat for the sake of it, no one in their right mind would Undraw ever now, this may have had a niche pre Minor Arcana in Stormblood now though get rid of it it is functionally worthless or give it an extra effect.


The above just really really baffles me with their job design team and highlights to me that they did not put as much effort as they should have when designing the healers for Shadowbringers.

[Seraphor]

SCH issues: This is because they regret their decision to tie two jobs to one class, making it difficult to balance them as two distinct jobs. You should really just consider SCH an entirely seperate job that you simply unlock via the SMN questline. After all, you don't remember all your black magic spells when you switch to WHM, so why would you remember anything from SMN when you switch to SCH?

Diurnal Sect: I'm not sure what you mean. The sects are tied to Aspected Benefic/Helios. But there's another topic on this page discussion turning Diurnal into an 'always on' sect or a trait to reduce button bloat.
EDIT: Oh I see, it is odd that you get Diurnal sect 4 levels before anything that it interacts with. I'm guessing they shifted Aspected Benefic to 34 for some balancing reasons, but the level 30 job quest had already established sects so they couldn't simply shift that up with it.

Undraw: Yes everyone knows this. You can just leave it off your hotbars and forget about it.

[Vyrerus]

Undraw was added in Stormblood, and it was added due to no longer having a way to just throw away a card you didn't want, when they tied cards to the, "card gauge."

Diurnal Sect used to add 5% haste to your casting, which it no longer does, and that is why it was introduced prior to allowing Astrologian to have Regen... a full level earlier than WHM gets it.

Nocturnal used to add +15% healing.

The SCH /SMN thing is SE trying to separate the classes from one another, because they deem it too powerful to be able to level two roles at once, and claim that it is hard to balance. Nevermind the fact that SCH was never out DPSing DPS, and has been weaker than WHM DPS wise for quite a long time now. The 15 level difference is because at first in SHB they made it so SCH couldn't use Aetherflow for DPS, meaning it was pointless to have until 45. Bane used to be available, but no longer.

[Maltothoris]

Nevermind the fact that SCH was never out DPSing DPS, and has been weaker than WHM DPS wise for quite a long time now. The 15 level difference is because at first in SHB they made it so SCH couldn't use Aetherflow for DPS, meaning it was pointless to have until 45. Bane used to be available, but no longer.

For shadowbringers yes. But during all of stormblood and heavensward, sch was the highest dps of the three healers on average. Astro was next when the 3.3 change to their cast time happend and then whm was the lowest til 4.5 when they got the buff to Assize in potency and lower recast time but it was still on par with astro dps.

Also the astro haste bonus was changed from that to 10 percent healing back in stormblood and noct sect when from 5 to 10 to 15 percent over heavensward and stayed at 15 in stormblood.

[Mimilu]

Diurnal Sect: I'm not sure what you mean. The sects are tied to Aspected Benefic/Helios. But there's another topic on this page discussion turning Diurnal into an 'always on' sect or a trait to reduce button bloat.
EDIT: Oh I see, it is odd that you get Diurnal sect 4 levels before anything that it interacts with. I'm guessing they shifted Aspected Benefic to 34 for some balancing reasons, but the level 30 job quest had already established sects so they couldn't simply shift that up with it.

It's probably because back in HW and SB the Sects had additional buffs on them. In HW Diurnal increased your Attack Speed by 5% and Nocturnal increased your Healing Potency by 10%, while in SB they both increased Healing Potency and decreased Enmity.
They probably left it because you get Diurnal Sect from the level 30 Job-quest, and while I can't remember what happens in that quest, I'm sure Diurnal Sect is important to it.

[Billythepancake]

SCH: smartest job in the game
Also SCH: Is the only job in the game to straight up forget spells from its previous job.

It's really dumb. I fell in love with SCH because it was the closest thing this game had to a true healer/dps hybrid. Now I have nothing of the sort, all of the healers are just "stand in your corner and spam 1 button until someone gets a booboo so you can kiss it away"

[einschwartz]

Nah, it's just devs and their lack of care for healers.

[Recon1o6]

I have never heard of anybody anywhere use Undraw, or Undraw spread before the latter was removed

That aside yup, here's to more SE idiocy

[Eloah]

The AST thing is baffling. I mean it took two expansions for them to get an AoE pre 50, so hopefully they fix the Sect issue in 6.0. It initially looked like they didn't want to shuffle skills around too much, but with how they did a mass shuffle in Shadowbringers hopefully that means they can make more sense of skills that once had a reason to be where they were, like Diurnal Sect, but now are just there for the Lulz.

The SCH situation makes some sense, since they were trying to "separate" the two jobs moreso, but it has it's own issues now. Dont get me wrong some of the changes were good/nice. SMN doesn't need Aetherflow like SCH does, merging it with Energy Drain and adding Energy Siphon was a good move. Along with moving Fester to a lower level. Since many people said level 50 SMN was just Arcanist with Fester. Well now ACN has Fester, lol. But at the same time removing Energy Drain from SCH was dumb. It would of been okay had you replaced it with another stack spender, but that was just bad planning.

The Egi Assaults were a good move too, as it finally made each summon viable for it's own purpose, instead of just pick the one you want. I will say though it is annoying on SCH that I dont have Whispering Dawn prior to level 20 unlike before. I have no AoE on SCH pre 20 now. I know low level healing is meh, but sometimes my party is just that... uh... "danger prone" lol

I feel they need to make more skills that appear similar for both jobs, but function towards each ones specialty, like Aetherpact and Summon Bahamut/Seraph. Plus some skills thematically suit the other job better than the one they are on. The poisons fit SCH better. And while Dissipation is "better" than what it was, it would make more sense for SMN.

Maybe I can organize a list yo keep myself busy. Got nothing but down time anyway, lol

[Crushnight]

Trying to explain to me that sch and smn being tied to arcanist was a mistake is falling on deaf ears because guess what, I know, I've been around since ARR and I was around when they made that statement, they learned by never doing it again and tried to uncouple them as much as possible.

But they flat out still haven't because they don't want to, else they would've done it with Shadowbringers, they have the capacity to change job unlock quests requirements, since you used to have to level Cnj to 15 for sch now just Arcanist to lv30 and finish questline, so would have no issues changing sch job unlock quest to just require any lv30 class to unlock and make said quest give a sch book as a reward on top.

They want Scholar tied to Arcanist just like they want Summoner tied to Arcanist and I am going to judge that design as such, there is no conceivable way that Scholars should have to wait 15 levels for aetherflow something they should know for 12 levels, if SE wants to push healing have aetherflow and Lustrate at lv30 thus for 15 levels only heals can be spent on aetherflow stacks (boring oh yes, but keep in theme with what they apparently are intending with healer design), it's not good to be teaching a player to manage 2 DoTs and then strip them of 1 after 24 levels of using it. With bane your not even giving Scholar a chance at using the skill which they just learned in the quest prior.

As for egi assults I treat wispering dawn/fey illumination as them though their levels learned are weird but something I can overlook.

Now onto Ast again ik what Sects used to do I mained Ast for quite sometime, so i'm questioning how much an afterthought healers seem to be for them to completely miss a useless stance for 4 levels, do bear in mind lv34 is not a job quest level it is just a ding level up! Level they easily by this point could've moved Aspected Benefic from lv34 to lv30 to prevent this, they haven't, so i'm calling it out as bad design because it is, and i don't think they care about balance pre lv80 let alone pre lv 50 content so Ast having regen 5 levels ahead of Whm ain't going to hurt like at all, it isn't an sch have to wait to lv30 for esuna and a dungeon really wants esuna used at lv32 or a Ast aoe being lv52 so no aoe in lv 50 content type of situation.

Seriously the Scholar stuff gets me more baffled due to it feels like as you put the sch stone around your neck/wrist/wherever Lily is behind you with demon eyes and a giant hammer ready to beat the tar outta you to make you forget your skills and afterwards your like thx Lily I needed that.