Is it OK to use bots in FFXIV?

[Veliaire]

As much as it deserves attention, it's definitely not a simple undertaking like many would think, especially since people that do the code can equally find ways to subvert any effort, time, and budget that would actually be given to such a project.

I disagree. It's as easy as following through with a report and suspending accounts guilty of bot behavior. It's as simple as a GM monitoring a character and seeing that they are doing actions 24/7 with no rest.. Its as easy as seeing a character undercutting everyone on the MB with over 40 retainers, within 20 minutes of a price change.

Its not hard. It doesn't require some sweeping change in the game's code, or a fundamental change in how the game is played. It only requires a minimal amount of attention to be placed on the issue.

[Kaurhz]

I disagree. It's as easy as following through with a report and suspending accounts guilty of bot behavior. It's as simple as a GM monitoring a character and seeing that they are doing actions 24/7 with no rest.. Its as easy as seeing a character undercutting everyone on the MB with over 40 retainers, within 20 minutes of a price change.

Its not hard. It doesn't require some sweeping change in the game's code, or a fundamental change in how the game is played. It only requires a minimal amount of attention to be placed on the issue.

If you look at botting is just a singular person issue or an infrequent issue then yes, of course, monitoring that is an easy undertaking for someone, but when you multiple that singular person by potentially thousands and thousands of reports, with many more reports amongst those already potentially being false and someone feeling griefed, then you are not going to be looking at a minimal undertaking. The volume of people undertaking it changes that effort dramatically, at which point you are looking for more automated systems to analyze behavior because it simply isn't really feasible for a relatively small team to undertake it. Barring a person having 40 retainers as that is insane and a case of the blatantly obvious, especially if in fact true. But if profit margins are there then people will be willing to undercut fairly frequently (If you don't get the sale someone else does, and then they resupply), and a lot of people find it inconceivable that a person would be willing to do this, but they will, and many of them will end up being reported anyway.

[Veliaire]

If you look at botting is just a singular person issue or an infrequent issue then yes, of course, monitoring that is an easy undertaking for someone, but when you multiple that singular person by potentially thousands and thousands of reports, with many more reports amongst those already potentially being false and someone feeling griefed, then you are not going to be looking at a minimal undertaking. The volume of people undertaking it changes that effort dramatically, at which point you are looking for more automated systems to analyze behavior because it simply isn't really feasible for a relatively small team to undertake it. Barring a person having 40 retainers as that is insane and a case of the blatantly obvious, especially if in fact true. But if profit margins are there then people will be willing to undercut fairly frequently (If you don't get the sale someone else does, and then they resupply), and a lot of people find it inconceivable that a person would be willing to do this, but they will, and many of them will end up being reported anyway.

If I were to call you a name in game, and you report me, I would be dealt with rather quickly. The reason the same attention isn't paid to bot reports is because there is probably some policy to ignore said reports and stick with whatever internal means of looking for bot activity they have. For one of the most popular SUBSCRIPTION BASED mmorpgs out there, "its too hard" isn't a good excuse to at least attempt to prevent market breaking activities from happening.

The reason they put so much resources into policing language and negative behavior with regards to other players, is because people are more likely to respond to bad behavior like harassment with quitting the game.. which means less profit for them. Not enough people quit because of bots, so they don't really seem to care if an economy is wrecked.

[Kaurhz]

If I were to call you a name in game, and you report me, I would be dealt with rather quickly. The reason the same attention isn't paid to bot reports is because there is probably some policy to ignore said reports and stick with whatever internal means of looking for bot activity they have. For one of the most popular SUBSCRIPTION BASED mmorpgs out there, "its too hard" isn't a good excuse to at least attempt to prevent market breaking activities from happening.

The reason they put so much resources into policing language and negative behavior with regards to other players, is because people are more likely to respond to bad behavior like harassment with quitting the game.. which means less profit for them. Not enough people quit because of bots, so they don't really seem to care if an economy is wrecked.

I mean whether it is being handled efficiently or not, to handle botting in any major scope, which when you consider all the reports being pushed out, and all the players on the game itself that actively play it is a method which quite dramatically clogs down resources that could otherwise be used elsewhere, which is why I think looking at automated methods is all that more important.

On the comment of comparing it to that of harassment, that's a hard one to compare, irrespective of the effectiveness of a team. You're given a report and it explicitly states the details, all they need to do is reference the log and the evidence is there with a couple of lines of conversation. Then a GM can just simply follow-up and act according to 'policies'. But a lot of bot reports, some will be a simple 5-minute check (e.g. going from 1 side of the map to the other without the aid of aetheryte is technically impossible without third-party tools), but someone doing an 8-hour gathering session may not be so obvious, so such things need a lot more eye to detail, especially to avoid banning innocent people. I do think a better job could be done, but that's only a band-aid in the end.

I do agree that it's a massive problem, just not so much that it is a 'simple solution', at least I can't see it being such!

[Kes13a]

I do agree that it's a massive problem, just not so much that it is a 'simple solution', at least I can't see it being such!

failing to do much of anything isnt going to make the problem go away either. FF XIV is regarded as a "bot friendly game in the botting communities". why? because it is VERY well known SE does virtually nothing against serious botters in NA and EU and pretty much just content themselves banning teh most obvious bots like RMT barkers and the droves of kjsdghfskjdfh kjshdfkjsdhf harvesters