Combining some buttons into one

[SomeRandomHuman]

What was suggested was a downgrade of the current rotations.
It wasn't so much the one button aspect of it, but the idea of just alternating combos forward and back each time. That's not how they play at the moment, and tanks have only been getting lower and lower skill floors; cementing them into the basement is probably going to happen but I can imagine most tank mains will be kicking and screaming along the way.

So pressing 1 button instead of 3 for the same effect is a down grade?

Your issue seems to be with the lack of skill variety. As long as things take up excess space old stuff has to be removed to add new things. By condensing things you open up more space for them to experiment with different ideas and mechanics.

[Ultimatecalibur]

Req -> Confitteor,

Requiscat -> Confiteor would not work as one is an ogcd and the other is a gcd. It would be stupidly easy to use Requiscat, push 1 to many times and buffer in Confiteor before you can cast Holy Spirit/Holy Circle/Clemency accidentally killing the Paladin's burst phase.

[Esmoire]

Love shout to Paladin for having a button you press once a minute to enable another button you can only use after pressing that button. Maybe have Req put Confiteor on a 2 sec CD or something to prevent you from accidentally mashing it, and have those share buttons. One is an ability and the other is a spell so there's some infrastructural problems they probably need to resolve first.

[Lubu_Mykono]

The PvE combos should be one set of buttons like PvP already. Easiest way of reducing button bloat.

[Ultimatecalibur]

What was suggested was a downgrade of the current rotations.
It wasn't so much the one button aspect of it, but the idea of just alternating combos forward and back each time. That's not how they play at the moment, and tanks have only been getting lower and lower skill floors; cementing them into the basement is probably going to happen but I can imagine most tank mains will be kicking and screaming along the way.

At the same time many of those against are also not factoring in the implied desire that those newly freed buttons would get used to add complexity back in.

Take Warrior for example:

Current 9 button gcd spread:

• Heavy Swing
• Maim
• Storm's Path
• Storm's Eye
• Tomahawk
• Inner beast/Fell Cleave/Inner Chaos
• Overpower
• Mythril Tempest
• Steel Cyclone/Decimate/Chaotic Cyclone

Theoretical 9 button gcd spread:

• Storm's Path combo (Heavy Swing -> Maim ->Storm's Path)
• Storm's Eye or Storm's Eye combo
• Ranged Combo (Tomahawk -> New action 1 (generates Beast gauge) -> New action 2 (generates Beast gauge and extends Storm's eye)
• Inner Beast (with self heal and damage down buff returned)/Inner Chaos (now with self heal and damage down buff)
• Fell Cleave/New Nascent Chaos enhanced Cleave
• Mythril Tempest combo (Overpower -> Mythril Tempest)
• Steel Cyclone (with self heal returned)/Chaotic Cyclone (now with self heal)
• Decimate/New Nascent Chaos enhanced Decimate
• Fracture (possibly on a long recast, now also building Beast gauge)

By combining the combos into one button you end up freeing 3 buttons up to introduce new actions or reintroduce improved versions of Fracture, Inner Beast and Steel Cyclone back in and also make it possible to add in ranged combos without bloating the number of buttons (which would help repositioning and disengagement).

[Lonkkis]

At the same time many of those against are also not factoring in the implied desire that those newly freed buttons would get used to add complexity back in.

Take Warrior for example:

Current 9 button gcd spread:

• Heavy Swing
• Maim
• Storm's Path
• Storm's Eye
• Tomahawk
• Inner beast/Fell Cleave/Inner Chaos
• Overpower
• Mythril Tempest
• Steel Cyclone/Decimate/Chaotic Cyclone

Theoretical 9 button gcd spread:

• Storm's Path combo (Heavy Swing -> Maim ->Storm's Path)
• Storm's Eye or Storm's Eye combo
• Ranged Combo (Tomahawk -> New action 1 (generates Beast gauge) -> New action 2 (generates Beast gauge and extends Storm's eye)
• Inner Beast (with self heal and damage down buff returned)/Inner Chaos (now with self heal and damage down buff)
• Fell Cleave/New Nascent Chaos enhanced Cleave
• Mythril Tempest combo (Overpower -> Mythril Tempest)
• Steel Cyclone (with self heal returned)/Chaotic Cyclone (now with self heal)
• Decimate/New Nascent Chaos enhanced Decimate
• Fracture (possibly on a long recast, now also building Beast gauge)

By combining the combos into one button you end up freeing 3 buttons up to introduce new actions or reintroduce improved versions of Fracture, Inner Beast and Steel Cyclone back in and also make it possible to add in ranged combos without bloating the number of buttons (which would help repositioning and disengagement).

Just gonna throw this out: what would stop the devs from combining the potencies on the combos, dividing the result by amount of buttons in the combo and just make it single button altogether? Because the risk of that happening is there.

[jazo]

gonna half copy/paste my viewpoint here,

yes to combo merge, and some other funcional ones on single buttons, give space for more interesting skills and could give us something more interesting

Usually jobs have 2 combo variations, damage plus or buff/debuff, those usually require 1 button to start and 2 paths of 2 more skills, 5 total for 2 combos, so cut it to 2 button slots would actually help not having to look at your hotbar constantly.

it would benefit low level players as the combos are not 3 step ones, only 1 or 2 steps, would not have to rethink where to put all the buttons as the combo increase on level, and we might get 4 step combos or a new finisher skill button that changes on combo or change current finishers on number of extra steps, anyway is less bloat and more time you can actually focus your eyes on the field.

Thats the direct benefit of reduce numer of actuak buttons to get more shiny new ones

Just an idea of how can less buttons can open new posibilities on playstyle

They could make the new finisher skill more potent depending on combo step count as today and maybe up to 45 and after finisher delay the gcd a little, so the rotations could be more flexible as how many "auto combo" skills to use before finisher and use the increased delay(1 or 2 secs at most) of finisher to use more ogcd skills

some 1,2,3~4 combos could be fast to input (like ninja jutsus or dancer steps) and the flair close to make up for the time saved

knowing when to cut the combo before the finish skill would feel like playing a fighting game (LP,LP,LP,SK ), somefinishers could change effect on number of combo steps. Less wasted build ups if boss jumps off.

Sure, most jobs would keep the actual 2~ sec button presses but still would have more space for new stuff

Getting repetitives combos into a single button is not as they would not add more stuff so you can still have to manage multiple buttons for more rotation variety and adaptability

Sorry if this reads chopped, some similar argument was on another thread

[Ultimatecalibur]

Just gonna throw this out: what would stop the devs from combining the potencies on the combos, dividing the result by amount of buttons in the combo and just make it single button altogether? Because the risk of that happening is there.

The main reason is that the players psychologically react a lot better to weak starting attacks, medium strength extensions and then pulling off strong finishers. This is why a lot of action games have single button combos that start out weaker but end up doing more average damage once completed than single hit strong attacks.

[SomeRandomHuman]

Just gonna throw this out: what would stop the devs from combining the potencies on the combos, dividing the result by amount of buttons in the combo and just make it single button altogether? Because the risk of that happening is there.

Because the dev team clearly wouldn't? If they were they would've done it by now because this game has been out for almost 7 years now.

[Stepjam]

The thing is, combining those buttons can still lead to more intriguing gameplay. If the devs want to keep the button count within a certain range, dead skills that serve no purpose outside of niche uses that could just as easily be merged with other skills block actually unique and rotation-enhancing skills from being added.

Like, between the lines can't be used outside of when Leylines is active, so whats the point of it being a separate button? leylines just went on CD to even use between the lines, so its not like its blocking you from using Leylines again. Merge the two, free up a button slot, then add something interesting in its place that enhances the job further.

Geirskogul <---> Nastrond is one of the best ways they've implemented it and it should be standard across all skills that have their effects locked behind the use of another skill. (Req -> Confitteor, Death flare + Enkindle Bahamut/Phoenix being all one button due to mutual exclusivity, all three parts of Gnashing fang being condensed to a single button so it's two buttons instead of 4, etc, the list could go on for a while.) Given that the alternative is that they straight remove stuff to fit their button criteria, condensing keeps all the skills around while allowing new skills to enter the fray, while also keeping the button count the same.

I think these are good ideas, but at the same time, someone else in the thread said that there's something in having the feedback of having certain skills get their own button, even if they are very situational. Like for instance having confitteor be it's own button, it feels more impactful for a better word as a stand alone button to cap off the requiescat phase than it would if it's just the 5th holy spirit press. But at the same time, I definitely see the benefit in something like making Summon and Enkindle bahamut/pheonix the same button. The casters in general feel pretty cluttered hotbar wise, so anything to clean them up a bit wouldn't go amiss (and this is someone who likes the casters).