Combining some buttons into one

[Derio]

They need to at least give us the option to do so. Unless next expansion they reduce the number of actions we currently have now.

[KalinOrthos]

Should collapse combos like the tanks' combos. Set the base path into 1 button and put the alternate finisher(storm's eye, and Goring blade for WAR/PLD respectively) into a 2nd button. Same for pretty much every other job with a linked combo like that. For red mage I like how pvp did it. Where verfire/stone turns into verthunder/aero. They already made thunder/aero turn into flare/holy and jolt turn into scorch so whats stopping them.

Oh dear god please no. I want more ways to end a combo, not less. This would be like merging every step of GF combo into 1 button, Continuation and all; you take away any sort of fun from the job.

[ElazulHP]

You talking about like what they do in PvP matches OP? Or something else?

[Limonia]

Personally would rather have more buttons than less. Those suggestions you made do make sense in some way but I still prefer them to be separate buttons. Imo having them seperate is more fun, engaging and immersive since then your button is reserved for a specific action/command, I don't consider summoning something the same as commanding your summon to do something, thus having separate buttons makes more sense to me and I enjoy it more this way.

I would like to have like 25 - 30 buttons per job, I think that would be enough. And I'd rather all of them be useful and different buttons than bloat for the sake of having more buttons. I like the number of actions that DNC and MCH have, while I think PLD and NIN for example have too many. But maybe it's because my hands hurt easily.
So while you have a point with summoning something isn't the same as ordering your pet to do an attack, it's similar enough to warrant putting it on the same button, if you get 1 or 2 more distinct, situational actions in its stead, or decrease the number of actions to how many other jobs have.

The button bloat-ish combat is something that's atm fairly unique about FFXIV and it's a big reason why I prefer this game over other major MMOs.

I actually hate it when MMOs/games only have like 8 action slots or so and you have to choose. I also really like that you can have many actions in FFXIV. But for me, there is also a 'too many', especially on jobs that have a lot of oGCDs.

[Limonia]

You talking about like what they do in PvP matches OP? Or something else?

No, as I said in my OP, I do NOT mean the PVP one button combos.

I wanted to suggest reducing button bloat by merging oGCDs that belong together (the easiest example is Ley Lines + Between the Lines from Black Mage) to one button that changes if the buff is active. But I think I've already explained it above.

Furthermore, I wanted to know why this hasn't been implemented already, when it exists for specific actions. Maybe it's too hard to code? But it works on Dragoon, so why not for others?

[Stepjam]

I certainly wouldn't mind being able to clean up my blm hotbar more, its kinda a mess.

I, like OP it looks like, definitely don't want the 123s to be collapsed into a single button. Most classes are simple enough as is.

[MariaArvana]

Personally would rather have more buttons than less. Those suggestions you made do make sense in some way but I still prefer them to be separate buttons. Imo having them seperate is more fun, engaging and immersive since then your button is reserved for a specific action/command, I don't consider summoning something the same as commanding your summon to do something, thus having separate buttons makes more sense to me and I enjoy it more this way.

The earthly star comparison isn't really a good one imo immersion wise since there you basically cast something that doesn't do anything on its own. It's dormant until time goes by or you trigger the ability, here it makes sense that it would be the same button you'd tap for it to trigger.

The button bloat-ish combat is something that's atm fairly unique about FFXIV and it's a big reason why I prefer this game over other major MMOs.

The thing is, combining those buttons can still lead to more intriguing gameplay. If the devs want to keep the button count within a certain range, dead skills that serve no purpose outside of niche uses that could just as easily be merged with other skills block actually unique and rotation-enhancing skills from being added.

Like, between the lines can't be used outside of when Leylines is active, so whats the point of it being a separate button? leylines just went on CD to even use between the lines, so its not like its blocking you from using Leylines again. Merge the two, free up a button slot, then add something interesting in its place that enhances the job further.

Geirskogul <---> Nastrond is one of the best ways they've implemented it and it should be standard across all skills that have their effects locked behind the use of another skill. (Req -> Confitteor, Death flare + Enkindle Bahamut/Phoenix being all one button due to mutual exclusivity, all three parts of Gnashing fang being condensed to a single button so it's two buttons instead of 4, etc, the list could go on for a while.) Given that the alternative is that they straight remove stuff to fit their button criteria, condensing keeps all the skills around while allowing new skills to enter the fray, while also keeping the button count the same.

[Rasikko]

This would save so much time due to people may have developed carpal tunnel

I'm thinking I'm starting to get that now..

[SamRF]

The thing is, combining those buttons can still lead to more intriguing gameplay. If the devs want to keep the button count within a certain range, dead skills that serve no purpose outside of niche uses that could just as easily be merged with other skills block actually unique and rotation-enhancing skills from being added.

Like, between the lines can't be used outside of when Leylines is active, so whats the point of it being a separate button? leylines just went on CD to even use between the lines, so its not like its blocking you from using Leylines again. Merge the two, free up a button slot, then add something interesting in its place that enhances the job further.

Geirskogul <---> Nastrond is one of the best ways they've implemented it and it should be standard across all skills that have their effects locked behind the use of another skill. (Req -> Confitteor, Death flare + Enkindle Bahamut/Phoenix being all one button due to mutual exclusivity, all three parts of Gnashing fang being condensed to a single button so it's two buttons instead of 4, etc, the list could go on for a while.) Given that the alternative is that they straight remove stuff to fit their button criteria, condensing keeps all the skills around while allowing new skills to enter the fray, while also keeping the button count the same.

Good argument and I might be okay with it if it meant we'd get more unique buttons and job mechanics, but not sure I'll enjoy this as much in practice as I'd think right now.

The immersion aspect will still be violated and it's a line which hasn't been crossed yet, and maybe devs want to keep it this way out of having a principle and logic in place. I don't know what Geirskogul is, but looking it up I'm assuming it's like SMN Fountain of Fire and Brand of Purgatory from the Fire Bird trance. How I interpret that, is that this stance you go into transforms some of your current abilities into a more powerful one which makes sense from an immersion perspective, it's the same ability and does the same thing essentially but it's a more powerful version, due to the stance you're in.
Enkindle isn't like that since it's a seperate action that doesn't have anything to do with the summoning button, it's giving a command for an attack which doesn't summon it, while the alternating between Phoenix summon and Bahamut summon does make sense since you're doing the same thing for both actions but just a different version.

Again, I think devs consider this immersion principle and haven't been willing to violate it so far (maybe to avoid slippery slope?). It's easy to neglect immersion and having a sort of logic to your abilities when you still have it, but I think violating this would for some make the rotation feel less satisfying and less immersive than they'd think it would beforehand. It may also get more confusing if you're changing too many buttons into dual action and dual purpose. Some perhaps also value there being set "principles" instead of inconsistent change in structure and ability function.

To also respond to your remark about PLD and to give another example: I enjoy the fact of Confiteor being a seperate button because it feels more like a standalone and real (powerful) ability you get to tap every now and then, and feel good about it. While if it would just become a replacement for Requiescat when you're in that window, I'm sure it wouldn't feel as special just tapping that button again to get this Confiteor, while also considering that it's a different ability from Req in terms of function, so for that reason it'll also be illogical and thus perhaps less satisfying to me. Maybe it's silly and maybe it's nonsense since it's difficult to convey what I mean, but try to consider it.

[Limonia]

The thing is, combining those buttons can still lead to more intriguing gameplay. If the devs want to keep the button count within a certain range, dead skills that serve no purpose outside of niche uses that could just as easily be merged with other skills block actually unique and rotation-enhancing skills from being added.

(...)

Yes, that's what I tried to say! I'm just bad at explaining, and English isn't my first language. But with actions that belong together like that and can only be used after using another one, merging them will make space for more different actions without increasing button bloat.

It would also make it faster to glance over your hotbars with less useless actions. The game wouldn't be simpler, but more comfortable to play.

(I have to say I like that the Gnashing Fang combo is a normal combo though, it doesn't really need to become condensed into one button, as it functions as a full combo, not just some oGCD which enables another oGCD.)