We should get exp boost in the game.

[DPZ2]

You have to compare this game to WoW and BDO and even BnS. They are all competing for the same market of players.

I doubt this. More likely, in fact, is that if you are attracted to one MMO, you are likely to try others as well. I know that I played WoW from 2008 to 2018, and I've played BnS when it came out (and GW2, and Rift, and Wildstar and ...). I started FFXIV in 2014.

The others don't compete for my funds, they complement each other -- when one is in a lull, the others are there to play.

Your comment about over-leveling content belies the title and reason for the OP post -- which was that there wasn't enough XP.

[Yue_Amariyo]

Except you're wrong. The story isn't the pull for this game. The title is. Also, I accept that FFXIV is what it is but, it needs to change. What they have now is not sustainable in the market we have today. The only people who will continue playing are whales and hardcore fans. No new player is going to drop $60 on a game and then another $60 when they find out the game is locked behind a massive story. My friends quit because they couldn't jump into dungeons right away. Sure they are just a few people but they are the average mmo players. People like that don't stick around if they can't do what they want to do and are told they have to do it this way unless they are a massive fan of the franchise already.

Except you are wrong. First off.. ARR portion was made for final fantasy fans first (yoshida went on record during a few live letters/interviews), and having look back on old live letters and letters to the producer, people enjoy it. Seems the only people who dislike story are hardcore WoW fans who are used to quest hubs. Im a new player, i played just about every mmo on the market, and I came to ff14 after a 10 year mmo break because i heard it had a good story. ff11 my most played mmo, had one of the best final fantasy stories I played. The game is still live today, and big plans for it come its 20 year anniversary.

Also Im happy the game is what it is. I HATE mmo that are the (real game is at endgame) type. It gets boring quick, im happy ff14 starts the moment i log in. I met an awesome fc that are a blast to play with. My short stint in WoW had me play alone, got bullied for not having addons, and being left in group dungeons after people got some loot.

Stop speaking for other people... You can only speak for yourself. You post is bothering me, because it feels like you are speaking on my behalf. I just started ff14 recently, and Im enjoying it. Im not even a big fan of final fantasy, im more of an elder scrolls fan.

[kaynide]

...

I am currently doing 2.x quests in Mor Dhona and I. Literally just had to kill 3 morbols.

[Reap00]

I am currently doing 2.x quests in Mor Dhona and I. Literally just had to kill 3 morbols.

You had to kill monsters in an mmo?! Get a refund. That is truly ridiculous.

[SamRF]

I am currently doing 2.x quests in Mor Dhona and I. Literally just had to kill 3 morbols.

Honestly, I think adding more combat to MSQ would make them feel less of a slog to many people. Same goes for me actually, I enjoy the MSQ for it's story but the combat and reading discrepancy is too great imo, to the point it feels like you're playing a graphic novel instead of a game at times and make me long for any combat (resulting in me doing random fates and dungeons without any goal, outleveling even more, fine by me but don't see lots of of people engage in goalless gameplay). The fact that you level so quickly is probably a big contributor to this problem, but even then, sidequests usually have very little combat as well.

And as I've mentioned before, the fact that you're stuck with gutted actions/rotation for so long certainly doesn't help imo.

[TinkerTech]

After 13 pages of discussion, the core argument I'm seeing is "I came from WoW knowing that this game was not like WoW, but I don't like it and I would rather it be like WoW. Let me skip the essential part of the game so I can be level 80 and blow stuff up without any effort or money spent on my part." Versus "The Story is an essential part of the game, and by allowing players to skip that you not only lose critical understanding of the plot, but may possibly lower player retention when there is less content to keep them occupied."

As a amateur writer, I want to say that anyone invested in a game, book or movie wants to know one thing: What happens next? It's the reason we all come back every patch and expac. If we divorce the story from the gameplay, make it optional.... why do we come back? Because of a new dungeon or raid? If there's no reason for us to be invested in it (I.e. the story) then why should we care? Sure, new content is fun to play through, but if I don't have any reason to invest in it I'd rather go play another game. The story gives us that investment.

I confess I'm not a WoW player, so I don't know how Blizzard sets up their expansion packs and update content. Do they have 'patches' between expacs that continue to improve on current content, or add new dungeons? Or is it a one-time purchase of an expac and that's it for two/three years? If it's the latter, and with optional investment in the story, I can see why player retention would drop dramatically once the new content is broken in. SE does a marvelous job of not only updating and improving, but adding new content even between expacs. It's another thing that keeps us coming back.

I have one last question for the OP; What's keeping you here? I don't say it in a mean way, I'm genuinely curious. If you're that adamant that you would rather have a WoW experience and would clearly be happier playing an MMO more like WoW, what about XIV's Content is keeping you invested in this game?

[PyurBlue]

I actually had this exact experience once in ff11. Abyssea just dropped and people dropped the group/ camp play style and doing story as you go to leech to cap and solo the story. I didnt want to play like that, but the meta was leech to cap... solo story. When i tried joining LS to find ppl to play with i was told leech to cap/ solo story.

I'm not familiar with 11 so I don't totally understand the scenario you're explaining. Playing the story cooperatively was an option (there were no FF14 like solo duties?) but no one wanted to participate? Did 11 have any kind of match making like Duty Finder? Was the story repayable in any way?

In the case of FF14 having a bypass MSQ option, I don't see interest in the story suddenly disappearing. The players interested in the story would still be drawn to the game for that reason. Those players at the endgame also have incentives to participate in MSQ content, though this might need to be re balanced if it was possible to go directly to the endgame. I'm not sure what exactly would be the best solution, but I can see something like a limited number of roulette bonuses that would make it really worthwhile for a fresh level cap character to go back and queue in DF in their spare time. The point with skipping to endgame isn't to ignore the rest of the game but to remove the huge time sink you need to get there.

when stuff is the meta , it is considered law. Like currently the meta is pull big regardless. In my first dungeon as a fresh tank, a healer tried pressuring me to pull more then i was ok with. I even asked him to stop, he tried to pick a fight. I felt i had to leave, as i was what the group wanted.

From my own experience I can't agree with this. Not many people really seem to care how you play until maybe you get to EX or Savage. A story like yours will happen every now and then but I don't see it often. I've gone back and replayed through the game on new characters and some party members have genuinely thought I was a new player because of the sprout icon and having only one class. In one case I ended up outleveling one of the early dungeons as a tank and when I was level synced I had my stance turned off. I didn't notice until it was pointed out, but no one was really bothered by it.

Big pulls are considered the norm, but I do see tanks/healers asking what people are comfortable with. Not everyone, but likewise that means that not everyone demands huge pulls, or kicks.

All of that is actually kind of a side point though because in the situations where people do care it's because they feel they're losing out on something. In the case of a tank pulling small, it's that they're missing out on time. How someone goes through the story won't affect them, so I don't see why they would care.

If you make something optional... people will choose to skip it, and not touch it. Leaving those who do want to engage SoL. ff14 has group story content, such as dungeons and trials. how do we put booties in seats if it is optional and people skip it.

If that was the case, why are there side quests in the game? People do optional content already. In fact the endgame could be considered optional content as tome farming through Expert roulette will pretty much prepare you for anything. FF14 does have group MSQ content, but we have the roulette system to fill queues already. Endgame players are already incentivized to queue. The reward would only need a bit of tweaking if more people were jumping to endgame.

ALSO. the 1-50 content from what i notice is a tutorial. it teaches you stuff you can do in game, like leve quests, trials, dungeons, grand company, job quests etc. I wish hall of novice wasnt optional.. as people skip it, and end up not understanding their party role. Bad enough people treat group mates like npc.

It's a bit of a haphazard tutorial though. I don't think this game really has any place for new players to go and learn about things in depth except the Novice Network. Hall of the Novice is at worst factually incorrect or at best ambiguous on a few things. It's also not really representative of how people actually tend to play. I see it as something that helps gear up new players. Maybe it explains roles to them if they're not familiar with healer/tank/DPS. A one time lesson that only covers the very basics is useful, but in the long run not terribly influential.

It is an assumption, but its a plausible one because we see this trend in MMOs that operate more like WoW than FFXIV in regards to a story based system. You need to consider how the game's core design and player base pressure new players to do certain things. What you see in MMOs like WoW is new players are encouraged to power through content to get to end game. Low to mid level content is over experienced. You dont even get through all of an xpac or area before jumping to the next xpac areas. This is further reinforced by player attitudes - "Fun happens when you get to current content. Just power through everything else. You can read about it later." Almost all questlines in WoW are optional...and most of them are left undone and bypassed by a large swath of the newer players in their efforts to 'catch up' and 'get to the fun.'

FF14 has a different playerbase though. Changing how the MSQ works isn't going to suddenly generate a flood of people saying to skip it. From how you describe WoW it also seems like skipping isn't really optional, everyone given boosts and expected to skip content by design. This doesn't have to be implemented into FF14. Whatever boost of skip is needed to bypass the MSQ could be placed behind an option that the player needs to activate. This is something that I already see people request for the Road to 70 buff. Some players love it, some would rather level more slowly. I think adding a toggle for it would be great.

I feel this has two knock on effects: You create a bit of a disconnect between older and newer players, as the only thing they can kind of bond over or understand is current content. Old timer players know about things like Barrens Chat and mankrik's wife. Newer players dont know jack about that except if its explained to them, seen the memes, or the devs give you an 'easter egg' so you feel like you can be a part of the joke. But it's not the same as experiencing that first hand. Youre not in on that cause you never went through it.

This is only the case if the new players don't go through the MSQ, but I guess there is disagreement on whether they would or wouldn't.

The other knock on effect is if you train your player base to prioritize "get to end game to have fun", they will expect just that. So you will need to divert resources away from things like MSQ and minimize it for the sake of "Get to end game for fun." It changes the focus of the game from the journey and story to get to the raids and end dungeons. I think this model has it's strengths, but I do not think that it will be beneficial to content like FFXIV. Rather I think it will actually damage the game long term.

Again this isn't about getting to the endgame, it's about choice. If this is a concern, the option to activate the skip could be accompanied with an explanation stating that MSQ is the intended play path.

Pick your MMOs by what you want: If you want an MMO where you pick and choose what you do and its like a buffet that revolves around whats most fresh, WoW is a solid place for that. If you want an MMO thats more about the journey and story focused, FFXIV is where its at. Two different models that have two different core focuses.

I don't really know much about WoW, so there isn't much I can say about it. I'm only making suggestions for FF14 since I like it enough to invest my time in it. I absolutely understand that games don't have to universal appeal. That can end up being disastrous if everyone only gets 25% of what they actually want. MSQ skip isn't one of those cases, or at least I don't see it that way. Instead I feel like it's something that would improve FF14 specifically.

I also understand that it's SE's game. They don't have to listen to me, but if I'm interested enough to pay to post on this forum I think it's only to be expected that I share my opinions (and I'm saying this not because you come across as antagonistic to the expression of opposing opinions, but to explain my point of view).

There is very little unifying player experience at low to mid levels. And htats fine. Again, focus is important. WoW decided its all about whats hot and new, the old stuff is just a formality at best. FFXIV is about the journey, play through the entire experience from lvl 1 to lvl 80, and then 80 has things to do once you get there (like any MMO).

WoW isn't my target. I haven't seen anything from that game that has interested me enough to play it. That's not because it's a bad game, I just haven't been drawn into it. I'm not looking to make FF14 about what's only hot and new, and to be honest I feel like that is a fitting description of how this game works sometimes. I miss old content that gets abandoned, or nerfed, or loses its flavor as classes are continually updated. I'm very interested in a journey that spans a vast time range and that I can share with other players. Putting the MSQ ahead of everything hasn't contributed to that in my case. Maybe things would have been different if I wasn't late to the game and MSQ wasn't continually in the way of playing with friends, or if the lower level content was more interesting to play, or if ARR was more like HW. The story itself wasn't the problem, it was the game trying to dictate priorities and getting it wrong nearly every time.

In any case it's still SE's game and they can and should do what they want. I'm just putting forth my suggestions and someone enjoying the game.

[MsMisato]

This is what I don't understand about people coming into the FFXIV and complaining about how the MSQ should be optional. Every single one of the FF games is driven by the story. This is what I don't get. Every Final Fantasy has been focused on the story and SE has never detracted from what the core expectation of the series is all about. The story was never an option, to begin with. That being said, SE compromised and gives everyone the choice to MSQ skip for money but they aren't going to redo their main core of the final fantasy series to have an optional storyline available so people could bypass it at this time. maybe in another 6 years sure but not right now. hopefully 5.3 when it drops will help new people get through the slog quicker.


AS for FFXI each nation had its own unique story with only a handful of missions meeting in the middle but yea the story part was definitely there and they were interesting. I liked Windurst and San D'oria stories the best. As for Solo duties, not really applicable for a long time not until the introduction of trusts and RoV and dungeons were open, you walked into a cave and you're technically in a dungeon. It was pretty unforgiven during exploration wise honestly as monsters were relentless especially if they are higher level they don't give up their chase lol. It was an interesting game and I kind of wish some of those elements from FFXI made its way to FFXIV (I'm talking about the mog house everyone is assigned it way better than the apartments and I sort of miss ranger from there). Personally its worht a check out if you want to try something that is a bit of pain in the ass to master.

[Ammokkx]

All I'm going to say is this:

If anything, there is "too much" XP in this game for how much you progress. If you keep up with roulettes, you'll be grossly overleveled at pretty much any point in the story. This isn't a bad thing, I like it in fact, but I don't see the logic behind saying there needs to be even more boosts in this than there already are.

For reference, I'm sitting on a level 80 Dragoon, 66 white mage, 70 sam and 60 dark knight. My progress in the story is "Forbidden Knowledge," a level 59 main quest in Heavensward.

I'm a bit of a slow progress and massive grinder all-around, I'll admit, but you still gain 2 levels a day at the bare minimum fir doing a full rotation of nothing but roulettes. This isn't even accounting for the XP you get from quests, which also rockets you up faster than you might expect. This is more than fast enough for the average player to get to endgame.

[Razard]

snip

Ok, most of your post is wishy washy rambley nonsense so I'm going to skip to the relevant parts.

Main reason why I want this option as much as I do is because of the complaints I've read about on MMO forums (not this one) and it annoys me that players have to wait as long as they had to before they can get into exciting combat and experience, it felt like a waste to lose out on those players just because of the slog of MSQ, and I've also got friends who quit soon after trying the game due to lack of exciting gameplay at lower levels. I realize however that if they could make you unlock abilities MUCH faster, to the point you have almost your whole kit at lvl 50, this wouldn't be as much of an issue.

And I hear complaints from such MMO forums that FFXIV is a Weeb game full of Cat (Now Bunny) Girls. Should The developers make the game less Anime (Whatever the hell that means), remove Ninja and Samurai and Delete the Mi'Qote and Viera from the game to appease these people too?

Here's the problem Little Timmy. There have been Franchises, Companies and entire Genres that have torn thier metaphorical own guts out to appease a mythical "Wider audience" That NEVER EVER materialises. Each of them dead or living on as a husk of their former selves. This isn't hairdressing, one errant snip and this stuff don't grow back. This is why people get defensive of this happening to their game.

I have long since stopped caring about the opinions of people who say "Just". "Why can't they Just?" "All they have to do is Just... "Without thought as too why the game is like that. That the other things in the background that need to JUST be done to even make this work. Like it's flipping a switch on or off. Feedback without thought is meaningless. It's how we get crap like Gordias.

I digressed a bit there, what where we talking about?

Snip

Uggggghhh

Also not sure what you mean with "Still waiting.. " where are you waiting on them? Where do you expect them to show up? Not in the game since MSQ is still very much mandatory. No idea what you mean there.

Because you are slow, lets go slowly.

k

http://luckybancho.ldblog.jp/archives/54501411.html

"The number of active characters decreased by 180,000 from the previous time (1.04 million) to about 860,000 In February 11". However this census was taken on the 6th of April, 4 days before Patch 5.25 which is a lul content period.

Still higher than previous concurrent content lul periods.

I've shown you mine, lets see yours.

This was my response to TC who asked for proof that the game is sustainable and would you look at that proof. Final Fantasy still grows, alive and well for all to see. Since you where going to bat for the TC, in your usual contrarian way, I asked for evidence for stats for all these mythical people who think that the msq is too long and is killing the game. Suddenly there's a outbreak of crickets and tumbleweeds.

They are already fixing the one part that is universally considered a drag. So lets wait until 5.3 to see shall we?