Quote Originally Posted by Yue_Amariyo View Post
I actually had this exact experience once in ff11. Abyssea just dropped and people dropped the group/ camp play style and doing story as you go to leech to cap and solo the story. I didnt want to play like that, but the meta was leech to cap... solo story. When i tried joining LS to find ppl to play with i was told leech to cap/ solo story.
I'm not familiar with 11 so I don't totally understand the scenario you're explaining. Playing the story cooperatively was an option (there were no FF14 like solo duties?) but no one wanted to participate? Did 11 have any kind of match making like Duty Finder? Was the story repayable in any way?

In the case of FF14 having a bypass MSQ option, I don't see interest in the story suddenly disappearing. The players interested in the story would still be drawn to the game for that reason. Those players at the endgame also have incentives to participate in MSQ content, though this might need to be re balanced if it was possible to go directly to the endgame. I'm not sure what exactly would be the best solution, but I can see something like a limited number of roulette bonuses that would make it really worthwhile for a fresh level cap character to go back and queue in DF in their spare time. The point with skipping to endgame isn't to ignore the rest of the game but to remove the huge time sink you need to get there.

when stuff is the meta , it is considered law. Like currently the meta is pull big regardless. In my first dungeon as a fresh tank, a healer tried pressuring me to pull more then i was ok with. I even asked him to stop, he tried to pick a fight. I felt i had to leave, as i was what the group wanted.
From my own experience I can't agree with this. Not many people really seem to care how you play until maybe you get to EX or Savage. A story like yours will happen every now and then but I don't see it often. I've gone back and replayed through the game on new characters and some party members have genuinely thought I was a new player because of the sprout icon and having only one class. In one case I ended up outleveling one of the early dungeons as a tank and when I was level synced I had my stance turned off. I didn't notice until it was pointed out, but no one was really bothered by it.

Big pulls are considered the norm, but I do see tanks/healers asking what people are comfortable with. Not everyone, but likewise that means that not everyone demands huge pulls, or kicks.

All of that is actually kind of a side point though because in the situations where people do care it's because they feel they're losing out on something. In the case of a tank pulling small, it's that they're missing out on time. How someone goes through the story won't affect them, so I don't see why they would care.

If you make something optional... people will choose to skip it, and not touch it. Leaving those who do want to engage SoL. ff14 has group story content, such as dungeons and trials. how do we put booties in seats if it is optional and people skip it.
If that was the case, why are there side quests in the game? People do optional content already. In fact the endgame could be considered optional content as tome farming through Expert roulette will pretty much prepare you for anything. FF14 does have group MSQ content, but we have the roulette system to fill queues already. Endgame players are already incentivized to queue. The reward would only need a bit of tweaking if more people were jumping to endgame.

ALSO. the 1-50 content from what i notice is a tutorial. it teaches you stuff you can do in game, like leve quests, trials, dungeons, grand company, job quests etc. I wish hall of novice wasnt optional.. as people skip it, and end up not understanding their party role. Bad enough people treat group mates like npc.
It's a bit of a haphazard tutorial though. I don't think this game really has any place for new players to go and learn about things in depth except the Novice Network. Hall of the Novice is at worst factually incorrect or at best ambiguous on a few things. It's also not really representative of how people actually tend to play. I see it as something that helps gear up new players. Maybe it explains roles to them if they're not familiar with healer/tank/DPS. A one time lesson that only covers the very basics is useful, but in the long run not terribly influential.

Quote Originally Posted by Melichoir View Post
It is an assumption, but its a plausible one because we see this trend in MMOs that operate more like WoW than FFXIV in regards to a story based system. You need to consider how the game's core design and player base pressure new players to do certain things. What you see in MMOs like WoW is new players are encouraged to power through content to get to end game. Low to mid level content is over experienced. You dont even get through all of an xpac or area before jumping to the next xpac areas. This is further reinforced by player attitudes - "Fun happens when you get to current content. Just power through everything else. You can read about it later." Almost all questlines in WoW are optional...and most of them are left undone and bypassed by a large swath of the newer players in their efforts to 'catch up' and 'get to the fun.'
FF14 has a different playerbase though. Changing how the MSQ works isn't going to suddenly generate a flood of people saying to skip it. From how you describe WoW it also seems like skipping isn't really optional, everyone given boosts and expected to skip content by design. This doesn't have to be implemented into FF14. Whatever boost of skip is needed to bypass the MSQ could be placed behind an option that the player needs to activate. This is something that I already see people request for the Road to 70 buff. Some players love it, some would rather level more slowly. I think adding a toggle for it would be great.

I feel this has two knock on effects: You create a bit of a disconnect between older and newer players, as the only thing they can kind of bond over or understand is current content. Old timer players know about things like Barrens Chat and mankrik's wife. Newer players dont know jack about that except if its explained to them, seen the memes, or the devs give you an 'easter egg' so you feel like you can be a part of the joke. But it's not the same as experiencing that first hand. Youre not in on that cause you never went through it.
This is only the case if the new players don't go through the MSQ, but I guess there is disagreement on whether they would or wouldn't.

The other knock on effect is if you train your player base to prioritize "get to end game to have fun", they will expect just that. So you will need to divert resources away from things like MSQ and minimize it for the sake of "Get to end game for fun." It changes the focus of the game from the journey and story to get to the raids and end dungeons. I think this model has it's strengths, but I do not think that it will be beneficial to content like FFXIV. Rather I think it will actually damage the game long term.
Again this isn't about getting to the endgame, it's about choice. If this is a concern, the option to activate the skip could be accompanied with an explanation stating that MSQ is the intended play path.

Pick your MMOs by what you want: If you want an MMO where you pick and choose what you do and its like a buffet that revolves around whats most fresh, WoW is a solid place for that. If you want an MMO thats more about the journey and story focused, FFXIV is where its at. Two different models that have two different core focuses.
I don't really know much about WoW, so there isn't much I can say about it. I'm only making suggestions for FF14 since I like it enough to invest my time in it. I absolutely understand that games don't have to universal appeal. That can end up being disastrous if everyone only gets 25% of what they actually want. MSQ skip isn't one of those cases, or at least I don't see it that way. Instead I feel like it's something that would improve FF14 specifically.

I also understand that it's SE's game. They don't have to listen to me, but if I'm interested enough to pay to post on this forum I think it's only to be expected that I share my opinions (and I'm saying this not because you come across as antagonistic to the expression of opposing opinions, but to explain my point of view).



There is very little unifying player experience at low to mid levels. And htats fine. Again, focus is important. WoW decided its all about whats hot and new, the old stuff is just a formality at best. FFXIV is about the journey, play through the entire experience from lvl 1 to lvl 80, and then 80 has things to do once you get there (like any MMO).
WoW isn't my target. I haven't seen anything from that game that has interested me enough to play it. That's not because it's a bad game, I just haven't been drawn into it. I'm not looking to make FF14 about what's only hot and new, and to be honest I feel like that is a fitting description of how this game works sometimes. I miss old content that gets abandoned, or nerfed, or loses its flavor as classes are continually updated. I'm very interested in a journey that spans a vast time range and that I can share with other players. Putting the MSQ ahead of everything hasn't contributed to that in my case. Maybe things would have been different if I wasn't late to the game and MSQ wasn't continually in the way of playing with friends, or if the lower level content was more interesting to play, or if ARR was more like HW. The story itself wasn't the problem, it was the game trying to dictate priorities and getting it wrong nearly every time.

In any case it's still SE's game and they can and should do what they want. I'm just putting forth my suggestions and someone enjoying the game.