We should get exp boost in the game.

[SamRF]

If story is the main appeal of this game, it's a really shitty game imo. Sure, story is good for MMO standards and if you're lucky it can emotionally invest you but it sure as hell isn't the reason why I'm playing this game everytime I do. Sure, I do sometimes return to this game after a break out of curiosity where the story went and that's great for me (someone who's interestes in story), but after the story is done I'm still playing. Do you log in everyday just in anticipation and preperarion of next story patch? No, you do things completely unrelated to story yet standard MMO stuff. Some people are interested in those standard MMO stuff you are putting 90% of your time in and not the story.

Again, I'm sure there are way more people than you think, that don't care about MSQ playing this game right now at endgame, who have skipped everything or have experienced it all but simply don't like it. They're simply not on these forums which makes sense. I think many of them are high-end raiders too.

You might even be better off watching a crappy shounen anime if story is all you care about. The story isn't good on its own, it's gameplay and MMO mechanics that make it worthwhile (imagine putting FFXIV story into a novel or tv-show).

edit: also, consider nobody is arguing for less story or a major overhaul of this game's focus. People who like story, including me, will still have their precious story when there are means for people to skip it more easily. Then they might even be able to take more risks with the plot and don't need the story to be as accessible and cheesy as it is if they're no longer trying to interest EVERYONE (aka crappy but popular shounen anime).

[Enla]

You might even be better off watching a crappy shounen anime if story is all you care about. The story isn't good on its own, it's gameplay and MMO mechanics that make it worthwhile (imagine putting FFXIV story into a novel or tv-show).

Given that most of it's story, Shadowbringers in particular, was specifically written to take advantage of the medium of gaming? I can understand what you're trying to say but different mediums facilitate different stories. Just because a story works better in one medium does not mean it is inherently a bad or vice versa. We don't knock books like I Am Legend or The Wheel of Time simply because they're near impossible to adapt into a movie format and almost all attempts to adapt them have ended up with a subpar product. Likewise most narrative games with an undefined protagonist would suffer similarly. Which is why most adaptations of those games settle on named protagonists or canons to get around the issue, or pretend the proverbial hero is off in some far off corner doing undefined heroic things. You can take one look at the Dragon Age greater lexicon for the right way to adapt a game's story, and Baldur's Gate in contrast for the wrong way to do it, which is to say don't do it at all if you value your sanity and instead focus on telling stories in the world itself. Literal adaptations of games almost never, ever end well and it's not usually because the stories are inherently awful but rather the medium they're being adapted into being a poor fit.

That said it's fine if people don't like the story or do happen to like it. But arguing either way is going to end up as mere conjecture and 'NO I'M RIGHT - NO /I'M/ RIGHT' without hard data to back up either assertion. Data SE likely has but will almost never actually give anyone as it benefits them in no way, shape or form to do so.

[Razard]

If story is the main appeal of this game, it's a really shitty game lol.

Deus Ex, KotOR, Witcher 3, Thief and Planescape: Torment (off the top of my head) have entered the chat...

Mr. Contrarian being wrong, imagine my shock.

[SamRF]

Deus Ex, KotOR, Witcher 3, Thief and Planescape: Torment (off the top of my head) have entered the chat...

Mr. Contrarian being wrong, imagine my shock.

No you misunderstand. I'm talking about FFXIV being shitty if the FFXIV story in particular is supposed to be the main appeal (because it's not that good of a story, compared to those other games you mentioned for example). I'm assuming you immediately stopped reading my post after that first line or I didn't state it obvious enough with the follow up.

Nitpicking and focusing on section outside of context on these forums, imagine my shock. For a community that's interested in story and lore you'd expect them to be more patient and considerate of what posts actually mean instead of straw-manning and nitpicking on impulse at every chance they get. See this practice very often on these forums.

[Razard]

No you misunderstand. I'm talking about FFXIV being shitty if the FFXIV story in particular is supposed to be the main appeal (because it's not that good of a story, compared to those other games you mentioned for example). I'm assuming you immediately stopped reading my post after that first line or I didn't state it obvious enough with the follow up.

Nitpicking and focusing on section outside of context on these forums, imagine my shock. For a community that's interested in story and lore you'd expect them to be more patient and considerate of what posts actually mean instead of straw-manning and nitpicking on impulse at every chance they get. See this practice very often on these forums.

I didn't need to. I see your arguement for the facile, vacuous statement for what it is. "I think the story is overrated so i'm going to call it a shounen anime as if it is a pejorative". and "We don't want to take away what makes this game stands out from it's contemporaries, but we totally do and take one more step into creative homogeny that this genre suffers from".

I prefer my PC to be a Character, not a Toon.

Still waiting on those mythical "lots and lots" of people who are being "locked out of the game" by something that is already being fixed in the next patch by the way. You and TC both.

[SamRF]

I didn't need to. I see your arguement for the facile, vacuous statement for what it is. "I think the story is overrated so i'm going to call it a shounen anime as if it is a pejorative". and "We don't want to take away what makes this game stands out from it's contemporaries, but we totally do and take one more step into creative homogeny that this genre suffers from".

I prefer my PC to be a Character, not a Toon.

Still waiting on those mythical "lots and lots" of people who are being "locked out of the game" by something that is already being fixed in the next patch by the way. You and TC both.

You can interpret it however you want and disagree with it but it doesn't mean that I'm being disingenuous, never asked for any game focus to be changed but rather having the option available so I don't know how that affects the game's creativity, maybe indirectly, I don't know. And again, this option would change nothing for me personally since I'd follow and enjoy the story as I've always done. I've made posts before related to story so take that as your proof.

Main reason why I want this option as much as I do is because of the complaints I've read about on MMO forums (not this one) and it annoys me that players have to wait as long as they had to before they can get into exciting combat and experience, it felt like a waste to lose out on those players just because of the slog of MSQ, and I've also got friends who quit soon after trying the game due to lack of exciting gameplay at lower levels. I realize however that if they could make you unlock abilities MUCH faster, to the point you have almost your whole kit at lvl 50, this wouldn't be as much of an issue.

Also not sure what you mean with "Still waiting.. " where are you waiting on them? Where do you expect them to show up? Not in the game since MSQ is still very much mandatory. No idea what you mean there.

[Dfess]

Deus Ex, KotOR, Witcher 3, Thief and Planescape: Torment (off the top of my head) have entered the chat...

Mr. Contrarian being wrong, imagine my shock.

All these games you mention have a much better story than FFXIV.

[JohnSpawnVFX]

All these games you mention have a much better story than FFXIV.

And FFXIV has a better story than most other MMO's. Your point is?

I'm still waiting for your proof of XIV's unsustainability, btw.

[Melichoir]

If story is the main appeal of this game, it's .... standard MMO stuff you are putting 90% of your time in and not the story.

Part of the FF series carries wtih it is the story aspects. I would personally argue that its a big part of the franchise. Is it Gone with the Wind, or War and Peace levels of literature greatness? Hell no. But so is a massive amount of art generally.

But people like it, and are drawn to it. If thats not your cup of tea, thats alright. It's the primary draw with secondary elements. Meaning, people came for the MSQ and FF series genre of story telling, and stuck around for other aspects teh game offers. As an anecdote for you, I like the MSQ and I look forward to the next part of the story, especially as of late with ShB. It's not the only thing that draws me to the game, but its a big part of it. I of course enjoy the end game stuff like raiding and dungeons and the like, but at the top of my list it's story. In fact, part of the reason why I liked WoW was for the story aspect, before it became obvious that theyre just digging up whatever so keep the franchise running - which might end up being the same fate as FFXIV, but atleast for the time being it feels like its going somewhere relevant.

Again, I'm sure there are way more people than you think, that don't care about MSQ playing this game right now at endgame, who have skipped everything or have experienced it all but simply don't like it. They're simply not on these forums which makes sense. I think many of them are high-end raiders too.

I know for a fact there are players like this. But how many is really up in the air. Among those who I engage with and what not, this is not the sentiment. They enjoy end game content and etc, but they did not skip the story and speak fairly positively of it.

What is probably closer to the truth is there probably is a sizeable chunk of the base who play the story in parts, and skip it in other parts - That is to say, if htey find a particular sequence in the story to be dragging on, they rush through it, but if it's engaging they play through it. And of course thats gonna have differences in how often its rushed vs played, but even then I would hazard that people typically play the story more than skip stuff particularly when xpac drops. Ive no proof, but neither do you. Were both operating on our personal perspectives in regards to this.

You might even be better off watching a crappy shounen anime if story is all you care about. The story isn't good on its own, it's gameplay and MMO mechanics that make it worthwhile (imagine putting FFXIV story into a novel or tv-show).

edit: also, consider nobody is arguing for less story or a major overhaul of this game's focus. People who like story, including me, will still have their precious story when there are means for people to skip it more easily. Then they might even be able to take more risks with the plot and don't need the story to be as accessible and cheesy as it is if they're no longer trying to interest EVERYONE (aka crappy but popular shounen anime).

Ive heard people specifically criticize FFXIV for its gameplay mechanics. There are positives, but a point that is brought up is how slow or boring classes are early on. Its got some merit, and the reasoning makes even more sense when you consider that some of this criticism comes from faster paced MMO systems (GW2 or WoW as examples). People who arent used to a GCD of 2.5 seconds and being limited in skills till pretty high up can make the game feel slow or clunky. It certainly does take some getting used to.

Same with boss fight mechanics and how that works. Now Im not saying its bad, but that it is different and once most people warm up to it, they end up enjoying it.

As for making MSQ bypassable - I covered this a few pages back. I feel its gonna have a knock on effect, less player cohesion with changing player expectations of how to treat the game. Making MSQ optional changes the games dynamics and how people interact with the game as a whole. Yes, you would probably see a spike in new players cause the MSQ wont be a turn off. But at the same time, youll likely also see player retention rates drop as players change their mindset. The draw is now optional. The leveling and play experience now becomes vastly different.

Consider this - you could effectively argue there is an MSQ for WoW, at least in terms of story. There is a long story thread you can play through that takes you through all the xpacs, all the zones, all the events that happen. How many people do that vs how many people just power through it and read the cliff notes a friend tells them about. Different models for different goals. That MSQ is optional, and the game and players treat it as such. This sticks in my mind most, but you can literally skip over a vast majority of WotLK story and Northrend. That is a great story...and you can just skip most of it cause you level so fast in your effort to get to end game content. As a result, the game doesnt treat you as anything but a bystandard watching stuff happen. You can go to the next xpac zone (Cata iirc) and the story immediately picks up again assuming you had some great part in it...when you didnt cause you never did any of that. I get that there is some level of immersion breaking cause Game mechanics trump story at times, but come on. In quite a real sense, you literally can become a "hero of the horde" and never done anything noteworthy to make you a hero. There in lies the trouble.

Give players the option to skip, focus changes to "get to end game" cause both the game and player base make that expection of you one way or another, and players will default to skipping that story content. I am not convinced that this is good for the game at large.

As a side note, I saw the suggestion you mentioned (sorry had missed it), but I feel that the issue with that is the peer pressure angle. New players will be told to turn on skip and just go back to the MSQ later, thus getting the same problem. If you give players the option with no push back or deterrence and it a path of least resistance, players will take that option. Jump potions exist, but the deterrent to them is the price point. Im not in favor of this approach, but I am also aware that every xpac added on creates a bigger potential hurdle for newer players. I unfortunately think that yes, either 'mini' Jump Potions or MSQ shortcuts/trimming like they got for 2.1-2.55 might be required at some point in time. Maybe the best option would be streamlining the MSQ in older xpacs some places. Less fetch, more story, as long as it feels cohesive and natural.

[SamRF]

--

I get what you're saying and it sounds like good arguments and maybe you're right. I'm not entirely convinced that the whole game's mentality would change like that if it's an option that is off on default. You give the example of WoW, but that's just how WoW is and always has been, that's what their community is like and from my experience the WoW ingame story isn't as engaging as FFXIV's, the fact that you're just a random hero and pawn of the the important characters being a big factor probably. So it makes more sense to skip all that basically, however that's not how I played WoW, I actually halted my leveling just so I could still experience story from certain areas better, but I realize I'm probably in the minority for doing that. I'm not convinced the player mindset in FFXIV would change as much as is speculated cause this story focused mindset seems prevalent for FF community in general.

You know if you think about it, there may be other ways to battle this path of least resistance appeal problem. Instead of having the instance unlocking as a toggle, they could implement a system in which you'd have to farm from some kind of tokens by grinding dungeons or do other combat content, so you'd have to put effort before being allowed to skip MSQ. And to unlock content you'd have to then go to a specific person with the tokens you've earnt, who will then unlock X content for you. Make the grinding for tokens take longer than rushing and skipping trough MSQ manually perhaps.